Teachers Teaching Teachers #160 - 07.15.09 - Cell Phones, Spinning, Diigo, Databases, Administrators, Inline Linking and More!
We invite you to follow this conversation that Paul Allison had with two old colleagues, Chris Sloan and Ron Link and others. For this webcast, Paul Allison and Susan Ettenheim invited two New York City teachers, Cheree Himmel and Crystal Gaskin, and two library media specialists, Karen Levy and Michael Dodes, to meet Chris and Ron and to be welcomed into the Teachers Teaching Teachers/Youth Voices community of educators. At the time, these teachers were a day away from finishing a 3-week Summer Institute with the New York City Writing Project. Paul and Shantanu Saha were the facilitators for this Institute.
The teachers from the NYCWP Summer Institute who joined us for the first time on this podcast:
Cheree Himmel, English Teacher, Queens Vocational & Technical High School, Long Island City, Queens
Crystal Gaskin, Special Education Teacher, Queens Vocational & Technical High School, Long Island City Queens
Two librarians, who were also in the NYCWP Summer Institute, and who were not new to TTT:
Karen Levy, Library Media Specialist, Christopher Columbus High School, Bronx
Michael Dodes, Library Media Specialist, samuel Gompers Career/Technonogy Ed High School, Bronx
Old Friends of Teachers Teaching Teachers and Youth Voices who joined us:
Chris Sloan, Judge Memorial Catholic High School , Salt Lake City, Utah,
Ron Link, Assistant Principal of Organization, Academy for Scholarship and Entrepreneurship, Bronx, NY
The conversation meanders from Crystal imagining ways to use cell phones in her classroom to new attitudes that Cheree is adopting to prepare for bringing more technology into her classroom. Ron and Paul talk about some of the "hard looks" that leaders in schools need to take when thinking about professional development that allows teachers the time they need to bring technology into their classrooms. Chris and Paul talk about the many ways they are re-thinking their curriculum and use of Youth Voices this Fall. Michael Dodes leads the group in two more conversations, one about Library Databases and another about Creative Commons, Fair Use, Inline Linking and Public Domain images.
We hope that this conversation feels like an invitation. We'd love for you to join our small group of far-flung educators, and connect your students with ours this coming school year.
20:48:13 Paul Allison: Hi
20:48:28 Paul Allison: http://paulallison.tumblr.com/post/141834783/re-thinking-youth-voices-on...
20:53:45 Paul Allison: some of us are ready.
20:53:49 Paul Allison: How are you?
20:54:08 Paul Allison: Hi MrsDurff
20:54:25 mrsdurff: hi
20:55:34 mrsdurff: hey matt
20:56:48 matt montagne: hey durff
20:56:51 matt montagne: how r u??
20:57:15 matt montagne: take 2
20:57:17 Paul Allison: Lost of teachers new to ETT on tonight.
20:57:18 matt montagne: hey durff
20:57:34 matt montagne: cool paul
20:58:52 Paul Allison: Susan will be joining us soon.
20:59:11 Paul Allison: A call she needs to take just came in.
20:59:21 Paul Allison: http://paulallison.tumblr.com/post/141834783/re-thinking-youth-voices-on...
20:59:30 Paul Allison: http://youthvoices.net/nycwp
21:00:43 Paul Allison: Hi Crystal
21:00:52 mrsdurff: hi crystal
21:00:53 Paul Allison: Are you up in Skype?
21:00:59 Crystal: Hi Paul
21:01:12 Crystal: Yes, My nephew is talking me through it
21:01:37 mrsdurff: hikingjus
21:02:00 kingjus45: hey, how are you
21:02:15 mrsdurff: hear you on ETT A
21:02:46 mrsdurff: hi kangiruk
21:02:50 kangirsuk: hi
21:03:32 SusanEttenheim: hi everyone can you hear us?
21:03:32 matt montagne: Hello everyone
21:03:39 SusanEttenheim: hi matt
21:03:59 matt montagne: Hi Susan, Paul, and everyone else...sounds like you've had a busy summer
21:04:05 mrsdurff: yes broadcasting
21:05:36 mrsdurff: hi jenny
21:06:32 SusanEttenheim: hi crystal are you there?
21:06:41 SusanEttenheim: welcome everyone
21:06:49 SusanEttenheim: hi crystal
21:06:55 SusanEttenheim: what's your skype?
21:07:04 SusanEttenheim: is your skype turned on?
21:07:11 Crystal: Hi its Crystal Gaskin
21:07:18 Crystal: Yes, its on
21:08:10 Crystal: Thank you- I can hear
21:08:30 SusanEttenheim: are you listening through skype crystal?
21:10:32 Jenny B in TN: Storms are not being kind to my hughesnet in TN.
21:12:36 kangirsuk: how do i connect with skype?
21:12:52 Paul Allison: http://youthvoices.net/node/21760
21:13:20 Jenny B in TN: Steaming is not working well tonight due to storms. Anyone like to comment on the stream in chat so I know what's going on?
21:14:06 SusanEttenheim: kangirsuk click on the volume icon
21:14:15 SusanEttenheim: at edtechtalk
21:19:16 Jenny B in TN: test
21:20:46 matt montagne: give up control...indeed
21:20:59 matt montagne: control kind of equals death in the google age
21:21:24 matt montagne: I'm reading "What Would Google Do" right now by Jeff Jarvis and he talks alot about control
21:21:47 matt montagne: Database navigation is kludgy...it needs to become more elegant.
21:22:05 Paul Allison: http://youthvoices.net/node/21760
21:22:10 matt montagne: I don't know why these database companies don't just slap google search on their tools
21:23:09 Paul Allison: http://youthvoices.net/node/21766
21:24:44 matt montagne: Not much difference between a cell phone and a computer now
21:25:17 matt montagne: school policies should shift to reflect that cell phones are simply computers
21:26:56 matt montagne: should we wait for research to tell us it works??
21:27:24 matt montagne: Does research tell us that textbooks are the best way to learn?
21:28:14 matt montagne: Technology simply allows the learning to be personalized and customized...it provides an IEP for everyone...isn't this what we want??
21:28:39 matt montagne: What happens in the classroom is determined by what the tests are...sad.
21:29:04 Jenny B in TN: school policies should reflect an expectation that students will use tools in an appropriate manner. Unfortunately they often assum the worst.
21:30:25 matt montagne: I wonder what would happen if we gave every kid a musical instrument, a paint brush, and a laptop...
21:31:15 Jenny B in TN: don't students get frustrated when their tech knowledge is so far ahead of teachers and aren't teachers frustrated when they KNOW there is more to learn but have little opportunity to do so
21:31:25 Jenny B in TN: right on matt
21:32:22 matt montagne: the reason we don't have any $$$ to give kids a musical instrument and a laptop is because we are giving the testing industry and the textbook industries all of our cash
21:33:03 Jenny B in TN: it's amazing
21:33:24 matt montagne: Assessment has to be heavily rooted in authenic portfolios
21:34:19 matt montagne: once parents start seeing rich student work done in ePortfolios the value of meaningless letter grades will be minimized significantly
21:35:08 matt montagne: @jenny...completely agree with you about expectations...we always expect the worst...what if we expected the best??
21:35:48 ronlink: I love what you guys are saying here
21:36:10 Jenny B in TN: Why are Math and Science so difficult? becasue we've cut all the opportunities to USE classroom learning. Kids don't want to write? Start a blog so they have an audience and the efforts will sky rocket.
21:36:25 ronlink: Yes!
21:36:32 Jenny B in TN: Testing has taken this away
21:36:57 Jenny B in TN: If I can't bubble it in, it ain't learned
21:37:18 SusanEttenheim: matt, jenny, would you like to skype in and join in live?
21:37:33 SusanEttenheim: I would call you into the conference of course... :)
21:37:38 SusanEttenheim: skype names?
21:37:39 ronlink: I just realized that I can't listen and participate here, but I just wanted to thank you for sharing your forward thinking and openness
21:37:56 Jenny B in TN: I wish I could heear the discussion, the snippets I'm getting sound great
21:38:01 SusanEttenheim: yes ron - like chewing gum while walking!
21:38:14 SusanEttenheim: jenny do you have skype?
21:38:15 matt montagne: Hey Susan...I'm good just listening in right now...but thank you!
21:38:15 ronlink: Matt are you in NYC? Jenny I know you're in TN
21:38:18 ronlink: :)
21:38:28 matt montagne: @ron...I'm in Palo Alto, California
21:38:44 SusanEttenheim: awww matt...
21:38:49 SusanEttenheim: ;)
21:38:53 SusanEttenheim: :)
21:39:07 Jenny B in TN: no skping for m, sorry
21:39:26 SusanEttenheim: michael ready to call you in skype!
21:39:29 SusanEttenheim: are you on?
21:39:35 M dodes: Yes
21:40:06 M dodes: Sorry got caught up
21:40:15 SusanEttenheim: great - glad you're here!
21:41:01 Jenny B in TN: did he just say do we need to have image galleries anymore? Tell me what he's saying about the alternativies
21:41:47 SusanEttenheim: jenny I think the images could be embedded in the posts as opposed to just posted in galleries
21:41:57 matt montagne: Diigo has a nice educational account type of thing
21:42:08 SusanEttenheim: do you use it matt?
21:42:15 matt montagne: Diigo has group website annotation features as well...
21:42:22 Jenny B in TN: do tell, never used diigo
21:42:25 matt montagne: Diigo does so much more than just bookmarking...
21:42:30 SusanEttenheim: how do you use it matt?
21:42:42 Jenny B in TN: go on
21:43:07 matt montagne: @Susan...I don't use it beyone bookmarking so much, but I do see myself getting more into the collaborative website highlighting and annotating
21:43:27 SusanEttenheim: yes do you use delicious jenny?
21:43:39 matt montagne: I like flickr because of the groups...if you have a kid who is really into photographing urban-scapes, there is a group for that...
21:43:53 Jenny B in TN: yes, I'm delicious. It's all over town.
21:44:12 Jenny B in TN: flickr is good for that
21:44:29 matt montagne: A website like Youthvoices should not try to hold all content...leverage 3rd party spaces to do the heavy lifting
21:44:36 Jenny B in TN: BUT I don't believe I can access it at school
21:44:51 matt montagne: so they site becomes an aggregator of content as much as a content holder
21:44:53 M dodes: I agree matt
21:44:58 SusanEttenheim: how true matt'
21:45:10 Jenny B in TN: true dat
21:45:19 M dodes: My argument for that is that other sites invest many more resources developing those databases and tools better than we ever could
21:46:21 matt montagne: @M dodes...exactly...they have the resources to scale...a small site like youthvoices doesn't. It also has the benefit of getting the students into some passion based groups in authentic spaces like flickr
21:46:49 SusanEttenheim: matt do your students go anywhere in flickr groups?
21:46:59 Jenny B in TN: I have trouble keeping up with what I already have and what I want to to try NEXZT
21:47:03 SusanEttenheim: are there any issues about being so wide open in school?
21:47:13 SusanEttenheim: how true jenny!!
21:47:30 matt montagne: audio??
21:47:47 matt montagne: back...
21:48:01 SusanEttenheim: I mean I still get some questions about open Internet in school
21:48:16 matt montagne: Hey Susan...we don't use flickr much as a school, but I know many of our students who are really into photography as a personal passion use it
21:48:18 SusanEttenheim: yes michael - any drupal site is a database
21:48:27 SusanEttenheim: ahhh
21:48:47 ronlink: I'm sorry, i'm back...someone mentioned students doing searches based on their reading levels...is htere a program for this? Thanks!
21:48:59 SusanEttenheim: hi ron
21:49:08 ronlink: hi susan
21:49:11 matt montagne: @susan...your question about being wide open gets at the whole walled garden concept vs. authentic online community spaces
21:49:16 M dodes: The other thing I would point out is pages that are generated dynamically like statistical information etc. is not indexed by google
21:49:21 SusanEttenheim: absolutely
21:49:26 SusanEttenheim: hi elyse welcome!
21:49:34 ElyseEA: Hi Susan
21:49:39 SusanEttenheim: exactly michael
21:50:19 SusanEttenheim: the reason tax money pays for state and gov databases is that in our democratic society we want people who can get to the information of the world
21:50:25 SusanEttenheim: to be good citizens
21:51:03 SusanEttenheim: think how many hours a day they are practicing using google
21:51:19 matt montagne: again, subscription databases are not very elegant...their algoriths are a bit weak
21:51:34 SusanEttenheim: they are trying to get better
21:51:44 matt montagne: Why don't subscription services work with google to slap their search on top of it??
21:52:01 SusanEttenheim: that has been the problem but then the reader's guide to periodic literature was never very user friendly either
21:52:19 SusanEttenheim: proprietary info
21:52:48 SusanEttenheim: remember we did three TTT shows on databases two summers ago
21:52:57 SusanEttenheim: there's a lot of info there on searching and using them
21:54:16 Jenny B in TN: test
21:55:07 Jenny B in TN: ^&*(*^&*** storms
21:55:14 matt montagne: Is teaching boolean search worthwhile?? Or is it going the way of long division??
21:55:23 SusanEttenheim: http://teachersteachingteachers.org/?p=130
21:55:46 SusanEttenheim: Karen Janowski quoted Brian Crosby from his blog title, ‚Äúlearning is messy‚Äô and Cathy from South Carolina, suggests that we ‚Äúmuddy the waters.‚Äù Are you willing to get messy with us? Sylvia Norton, from Maine‚Äôs MARVEL, says ‚ÄúI think we spend a lot of time talking about quality information but not always walking the talk when it comes to expectations in student work and what we accept without question‚Äù
21:55:55 M dodes: we can teach boolean and it helps but I don't think it's necessary.
21:56:09 SusanEttenheim: it's just another tool and a way of thinking
21:56:35 SusanEttenheim: but searchengine info - to compare and understand how search engines search is good
21:57:21 Jenny B in TN: that's a vital skill to learn
21:57:22 SusanEttenheim: our TTT August 15, 2007 has some good info on this topic
21:57:40 matt montagne: thanks, Susan.
21:57:52 SusanEttenheim: in the NYState NOVEL database there are some great simple videos
21:58:13 SusanEttenheim: you can just click on it and show it to students they are only about 3 min long
21:58:26 SusanEttenheim: videos on how to search databases
21:58:35 Jenny B in TN: thanks! sounds great
21:58:54 SusanEttenheim: jenny what do you have in the way of state databases in TN?
21:59:45 M dodes: totally lost audio
21:59:47 matt montagne: ahh, remixing, creative commons, copyright, etc...could be an entire webcast series!
21:59:59 SusanEttenheim: michael did you put yourself on hold on purpose
22:00:00 SusanEttenheim: ?
22:00:13 matt montagne: I wish the new google creative commons search was a little more explicit about searching for CC licensed content...
22:00:25 SusanEttenheim: michael just called you back
22:00:44 M dodes: no I didn't
22:01:06 SusanEttenheim: ok you're back :)
22:02:27 matt montagne: wow, that is a game changer...embedding the image from a URL gives us greater liberty to use images...interesting...
22:03:06 SusanEttenheim: this whole area of the law is changing every moment
22:03:15 SusanEttenheim: and everyone is sure of what's right
22:03:35 SusanEttenheim: but I think the most important thing is to be thinking about it
22:03:47 matt montagne: many viral youtube remixes are done with copyrighted content...how can we expose our students to the art of remixing without using copyrighted content?? Maybe we can't and this is simply something best done outside of school
22:03:49 SusanEttenheim: life is so different now that our work is so public
22:04:16 SusanEttenheim: or maybe we should be talking about it matt since that's what everyone is doing all the time
22:05:14 matt montagne: @Susan...good point about life being different now due to our public work.
22:05:16 SusanEttenheim: we need to find some intellectual property lawyers to share with us!
22:05:50 SusanEttenheim: it's what kids do all the time - they link pics without copying and pasting
22:05:50 M dodes: Hope my contributions have been good lol
22:05:54 matt montagne: current copyright law is definitely reflective of a pre-Internet era
22:06:01 SusanEttenheim: they are used to linking everywhere all the time
22:06:10 SusanEttenheim: great to have you here michael!
22:06:20 matt montagne: @M dodes...yep, you were great! All participants were awesome
22:06:24 matt montagne: great show everyone!
22:06:25 SusanEttenheim: lol I remember before you had a school!
22:06:44 M dodes: :) this is true! I was piggy backing on Tech Thursdays with Barbara lol
22:07:11 SusanEttenheim: hi twilightny
22:07:15 matt montagne: inline linking...another reason to use Google Docs presentation tool
22:07:22 SusanEttenheim: we're just closing now but welcome
22:07:38 SusanEttenheim: why matt? because of how easy it is to link?
22:07:58 twilightny: Hi just found out about this site.
22:08:03 matt montagne: @susan...yep, because google docs presenations is web-based it allows images to be linked from a URL
22:08:17 SusanEttenheim: yes very easily
22:08:23 matt montagne: perhaps PPT and Keynote do that as well with images
22:08:29 SusanEttenheim: twilightny where and what do you teach?
22:08:43 SusanEttenheim: yes matt but that also connects us more to voicethread
22:09:01 SusanEttenheim: all the advantages of google presentations plus the discussion
22:09:38 twilightny: I am in NYC - teach high school govt and econ; also a grad student in the Principals Academy at Columbia
22:09:56 SusanEttenheim: wow twilightny I'm at Eleanor Roosevelt HS where are you?
22:10:04 SusanEttenheim: congrats Ron!!!
22:10:24 SusanEttenheim: glad you're back jenny
22:10:28 twilightny: High School of Arts & Tech - in the MLK campus
22:10:38 SusanEttenheim: ahhh
22:10:55 twilightny: tell me more about this site.
22:11:20 Jenny's gone crazy in TN: thanks, argh and bye all
22:11:31 SusanEttenheim: keep in touch jenny!
22:12:12 ronlink: Twlilight? Who are you?
22:12:18 ronlink: What cohort?
22:12:34 ronlink: I'm in 2008
22:12:34 twilightny: Ron, I"m vanessa
22:12:41 ronlink: LOL :)
22:12:49 twilightny: this is an amazing resource
22:13:02 ronlink: Isn't it?
22:13:23 twilightny: I am so intrigued...so much I can learn
22:13:25 ElyseEA: Goodnight!
22:13:29 ronlink: How did you learn about it?Well have to talk tomorow
22:13:37 twilightny: from your post!
22:13:38 ronlink: Good night all and thank you
22:13:46 ronlink: OH! :)
22:13:56 twilightny: is it for an hour>
22:14:00 ronlink: yes
22:14:04 ronlink: every week
22:14:08 twilightny: ok -
22:14:18 twilightny: fill me in tomorrow.
22:14:27 ronlink: i gotta get back to work, definitely!
22:14:35 ronlink: nite
22:14:36 twilightny: same
22:15:35 M dodes: Good night Susan, Paul, Christ
22:15:37 M dodes: chris
22:15:42 M dodes: sorry!