Teachers Teaching Teachers#280 - Walk Out Walk On w/ Deborah Frieze 2012-01-18
More about Deborah from http://www.walkoutwalkon.net/authors:
In 2001, Deborah Frieze walked out of her career as an executive in the high-tech industry. She was disillusioned by a business culture that emphasized short-term results, looked upon growth as an end rather than a means, and cared more about compliance than community. A year later, she met Meg Wheatley and a community of pioneering leaders who, like her, were walking out of organizations and systems that were failing to contribute to the common good. These were friends and colleagues of The Berkana Institute. She currently lives in Boston but can more often be found visiting friends and colleagues around the world who are creating healthy and resilient communities.
Learn more at http://www.deborahfrieze.com.
01:34 Jeff: Hi Paul. All systems go? Cool background music there for a second.
01:38 Paul Allison: Close... I think I can pull this off.
01:41 Jeff: Good luck. Will keep standing by just in case. No classes today, so no problem on this end. I keep hearing static as you play around and then a short clip of you staring at the machine listening to wicked witch.
01:45 Chris Sloan: Good evening. Looking forward to the chat
01:47 Paul Allison: Almost there.
01:48 Chad Sansing: Hello, friends.
01:48 Chris Sloan: Hi Chad and Ruth
01:49 Ruth Avraham Israeli: Hi everyone im new here
01:51 Paul Allison: We'll start in about 3 minutes. Sorry about the delay.
01:51 Peggy: Hi all
01:52 Deborah: Nice to be here
01:52 Peggy: hoping I have better luck listening tonight--last week my audio/video kept cutting out so much I couldn't follow the conversation. Thinking positive thoughts :-)
01:52 Paul Allison: Jeff, I give up. Can you have everyone go over to the other room
01:53 Jeff: roger that
01:53 Peggy: where's the other room?
01:53 Paul Allison: Do we stay in our TTT Hangout?
01:54 Chris Sloan: Hi Deborah. Love the book.
01:54 Peggy: that was a catchy tune :-)
01:54 Peggy: do we need to log out and come back in?
01:55 Peggy: so excited to have you joining the conversation Deborah!
01:56 Paul Allison: Jeff, Where do we meet?
01:57 Scott Shelhart: Hi all
01:57 Peggy: the only thing that is coming through clearly is the song about the wicked witch :-) tee hee!
01:57 Peggy: Hi Scott
01:57 Paul Allison: Hi.
01:57 Paul Allison: Getting started
01:57 Scott Shelhart: @paul missing you in the hangout
01:57 Peggy: doing some troubleshooting with the streaming...
01:57 Peggy: Paul and Jeff are hard at work!
01:58 Ryan: Is this live
01:58 Ryan: sorry, I am new here
01:58 Paul Allison: Welcome
01:58 Peggy: no worries Ryan
01:58 Chad Sansing: It will be, Ryan -
01:58 Paul Allison: Still trying to find out where to go.
01:58 Peggy: this is a live stream with some technical difficulties right now--shouldn't be long
01:58 Scott Shelhart: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/extras/talk.google.com/ttt?authuser=0&h...
01:58 Ryan: Is this the teachersteachingteachers webcast?
01:58 Jeff: good to go
01:58 Peggy: yes Ryan
01:59 Ryan: sweet, I am in the right place then
01:59 Peggy: they're doing some cutting edge technology things by meeting in Google Hangout and streaming it here
01:59 Chris Sloan: Silly question, but how do I get to the hangout Scott?
01:59 Peggy: you can view the stream here (once it's working)
02:00 Jeff: Hangout at: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/extras/talk.google.com/ttt?authuser=0&h...
02:00 Jeff: you'll need to refresh the /live-ttt page to see the new stream
02:00 Peggy: if you want to go on camera and participate in the conversation you should join the hangout
02:00 Scott Shelhart: stream should be on.... try refreshing your screen
02:01 Peggy: seeing and hearing everything great now!!
02:01 Peggy: we are seeing the people in the hangout in this stream now :-)
02:01 Peggy: look at that smile!!!
02:02 Peggy: great to see all of you in the hangout and especially excited to meet Deborah Frieze :-)
02:02 Peggy: Welcome Ryan!
02:03 Peggy: http://paulallison.tumblr.com/
02:03 Peggy: Deborah is one of the authors of the book :-)
02:03 Peggy: yeah Kelsey!
02:03 Peggy: hahahaha
02:04 Peggy: her dad is Scott :-)
02:05 Peggy: that's always a challenge Kelsey--listening through headset with someone talking right next to you--echo :-)
02:05 Peggy: everyone is this group could be considered radical :-)
02:05 Peggy: yes start over so it's part of the recording
02:06 Peggy: http://www.walkoutwalkon.net/
02:06 Ruth Avraham Israeli: Hi has the conversation begun im still here on livestream, im new at this site
02:06 Scott Shelhart: my byline, Agent of change. Stirrer of pots. Kicker of beehives ....
02:07 Peggy: hahahaha
02:07 Scott Shelhart: is on my twitter and plurk pages :-)
02:08 Peggy: this background is really helpful!
02:10 Scott Shelhart: Kelsey and I are taking up two slots in the hangout. One of us can drop out if others want to join
02:11 monika: http://vimeo.com/17907928
02:11 Scott Shelhart: MaryBeth Hertz: This is fascinating to think about alongside of disruption theory in Disrupting Class
02:11 Scott Shelhart: MaryBeth Hertz: This is fascinating to think about alongside of disruption theory in Disrupting Class MaryBeth Hertz: This is fascinating to think about alongside of disruption theory in Disrupting Clas
02:12 Scott Shelhart: Chris Sloan: Disrupting Class ... good book
02:13 Scott Shelhart: Chad Sansing: Interesting - dovetails into a book I'm reading about "nations" at work in the American state, their power to assimilate residents, and their immutability to change.
02:13 Scott Shelhart: Chad Sansing: Responsibility to kids in schools is a primary driver of the tension between some ideas on the Coöp.
02:14 Chris Sloan: I like the "class" that is being disrupted. Not just school class, but socio-economic class (as I recall, it's been a year or so since I've read it)
02:15 Scott Shelhart: MaryBeth Hertz: I just wrote about the idea of Change W/In and W/out the System. I guess I need to read Deborah's book! http://mbteach.com/?p=403
02:16 Scott Shelhart: Chad Sansing: @MB: EduCon book group
02:17 Chad Sansing: Swaraj sounds a bit like Goddard.
02:19 Christina: Chad, what were the names of the places in Mexico? do you remember?
02:19 jackiegerstein: Sad - that time in education has to be spent unlearning - what are the ethics behind this?
02:19 Kelsey: Zapatismo and Uniterria
02:20 jackiegerstein: Passion-based learning
02:20 Chad Sansing: Christina - Unitierra in Oaxaca and Chiapas -
02:21 Christina: Thank you @Chad!
02:22 Chad Sansing: Sure thing -
02:22 Scott Shelhart: Delayed learning to read... because there hes yet to be a need to read?
02:22 Mary Beth: @jackie as far as ethics go---I think of it as guiding kids towards unlearning misconceptions about what learning is and looks like that they may get from the way schools are now structured (read: high stakes testing)
02:24 jackiegerstein: Bringing Schools Back to Life: Schools as Living Systems in Creating Successful School Systems: by Margaret Wheatley http://margaretwheatley.com/articles/lifetoschools.html discusses start anywhere follow it everywhere
02:25 jackiegerstein: @Mary Beth - I am concerned about coercive learning and the ethics behind that - in that we have to help them unlearn
02:25 Chad Sansing: Sudbury Valley: http://www.sudval.org/
02:25 Chad Sansing: Brooklyn Free School (democratic/free education): http://www.brooklynfreeschool.org/
02:26 jackiegerstein: Education as it should be – passion-based. Montessori Methods – Worth a (Re)Look http://usergeneratededucation.wordpress.com/2011/07/25/montessori-method...
02:26 Mary Beth: @jackie are you worried that there is coercion involved in guiding students to unlearn
02:27 jackiegerstein: @Mary Beth - nope I am concerned about a system that forces kids to what, how to learn; and then they have to unlearn to get back to their "selves"
02:27 Chris Sloan: A link to the Utah school that Deborah mentioned: http://www.segolilyschool.org/
02:27 Chad Sansing: @Ryan: are there principles kids can explore w/ materials they choose and bring? What is essential for kids to illustrate - and are their essentials in the "how" that can be tackled with different materials?
02:28 Chad Sansing: The way we schedule, staff, and track classes doesn't help, but that makes each of those things fertile ground for criticism, experimentation, and subversion.
02:28 jackiegerstein: Maybe more Reggio then?
02:30 Mary Beth: @jackie--ah, yes. Is school actually in the business of letting kids be themselves as it currently exists?
02:30 jackiegerstein: Stockholm’s School Without Classrooms http://www.architizer.com/en_us/blog/dyn/37250/vittra/
02:30 Chad Sansing: Thanks, Jackie - good share.
02:31 Christina: I think this is such an interesting and important point about the cross-generational social fabric.
02:31 Mary Beth: Which is why the Free School model is so neat---one room schoolhouse--all ages learning together.
02:31 jackiegerstein: I did a multi-generational (four generations) for at-risk kids, was amazing - got a USA Today award
02:32 jackiegerstein: It is a learning community!
02:32 Scott Shelhart: Ryan White: @Scott I think they could definitely do that, it would just require a teacher who has enough experience to answer all the different types of questions
02:33 Christina: Where do we even create, for ourselves, an intergenerational social fabric? Just thinking about it.
02:33 jackiegerstein: Why does the teacher need to have all the answers?
02:35 Chris Sloan: @Christina. We've had luck linking with the alumni from our school.
02:35 Scott Shelhart: Kelsey Shelhart: they don't. people within the person asking's reach have to have all the answers. communitivly
02:35 Scott Shelhart: Ryan White: @ Scott, for the same reason we dont need to re-invent the wheel
02:35 Mary Beth: Adults still ask to use the bathroom :)
02:35 Chris Sloan: The kids actually get a lot out of hearing the stories of the older people's experience at our school, and of course the older folks like to be heard
02:37 jackiegerstein: De-conditioned from systems that worked very hard to condition us from very early years.
02:38 Chad Sansing: Sometimes it does not feel like meditation ;)
02:38 Carol Black: That's definitely what unschooling is.
02:39 jackiegerstein: . . . and inviting/accepting the chaos and confusion of the a community's evolution
02:40 Christina: leadership as host is an interesting way of talking about it. therefore the questions become how do you learn how to lead in this way? how do you support others in this way too?
02:40 jackiegerstein: That's Sugra Mitra's belief - offer kids a great question and then get out of the way
02:40 Scott Shelhart: It is interesting to listen to the conversation and frame it as an elementary teacher
02:41 Scott Shelhart: Kelsey Shelhart: nothing is unanswerable, you just have to know where to look
02:41 jackiegerstein: The Art of Hosting and harvesting conversations that matter is a new practice of democracy that we really need in the world now." http://www.artofhosting.org/home/
02:41 Christina: @Chad a practice certainly!
02:44 Chad Sansing: Jeff beat me to the link.
02:44 Peggy: teamwork Chad :-)
02:44 Scott Shelhart: again, seeing parallels to Disrupting Class
02:44 Chad Sansing: Jeff is hero and host.
02:45 Jeff: loving being a non-host listener/learner
02:45 Christina: http://www.infed.org/biblio/communities_of_practice.htm
02:46 Jeff: I'd say we embrace failure as a part of the community learning adventure
02:46 Scott Shelhart: The community is the curriculum? Sounds familiar
02:46 Mary Beth: How can we help young people create communities of practice?
02:47 jackiegerstein: actually it fits the outward bound model
02:47 jackiegerstein: Cool!
02:48 Christina: Writing Project resources about this .. here's one: http://www.nwp.org/cs/public/print/resource/2690
02:49 Scott Shelhart: ...proud dad moment...
02:49 Peggy: I can see why Scott :-)
02:50 Chris Sloan: Thanks Christina. Good stuff
02:50 Mary Beth: and I think social media plays a role in how students form these communities
02:50 Christina: Another one: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:nOHewSLgS04J:www.nwp.org/cs/p...
02:51 jackiegerstein: Outward bound models focuses on building community - facilitator helps groups create their norms and community, and then progressively removes him/herself from the community, letting the young people run their community
02:51 Mary Beth: Love the idea of ball seats!
02:51 Jeff: wondering what the seat choices were...
02:51 Jeff: More kids go for a seat, ball, or standing desk?
02:52 Peggy: Scott has some great ustream videos of his students using the balls as seats
02:52 Chris Sloan: I'm guessing they went for the ball
02:52 Jeff: I'm on one right now - I'm free! (and not squeaking anymore)
02:52 Mary Beth: I'm thinking of the aboriginal walkabout, too
02:53 jackiegerstein: That's what came to my mind Mary Beth Walk-abouts
02:53 Scott Shelhart: https://sites.google.com/site/scottshelhartportfolio/home/edpg-artifacts...
02:53 Peggy: funny Jeff! the squeaking chair is part of your online identity :-)
02:55 Karen Steffensen: Fabulous thoughts.
02:59 Chad Sansing: One of my favorite provocations: Rushkoff's "Program or be Programmed." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imV3pPIUy1k
02:59 Peggy: :-) that's our site!
03:00 Peggy: I'm so glad the book was available on Kindle :-)
03:01 Scott Shelhart: Is on Nook also
03:01 Peggy: don't have a Nook :-) but am loving reading it on my Kindle Fire!
03:01 Scott Shelhart: Kelsey is going to lend it to me when she is done
03:01 Peggy: great Scott!
03:02 Peggy: love that distinction--not reading about the place but "at the place"
03:02 Scott Shelhart: I dont have a nook or kindle... I use my phone
03:03 Karen Steffensen: Part from book that resonates for me: Jugaad-- ingenuity, an invitation to imagination/play, to reinvent...
03:04 Scott Shelhart: Leader as host and hospice model are my big "take-away" items for tonight
03:04 Ruth Avraham Israeli: nice monika!
03:06 Peggy: wonderful conversation!! thank you all!
03:07 Christina: Thanks everyone!
03:07 Christina: great work :)
03:07 Scott Shelhart: Thanks Peggy! Good to have you here, as always
03:07 Ruth Avraham Israeli: thank you all!
03:07 Karen Steffensen: Thanks all for sharing.
03:07 Peggy: you too Scott (and Kelsey)!
03:08 Peggy: every group needs an audio nag :-)
Scott Shelhart: Peggy George says hello to all
Chad Sansing: What up, MB?
MaryBeth Hertz: Hey Chad!
Scott Shelhart: Kelsey, do you know how to set up 2 windows so yo ucan see the other chat?
Kelsey Shelhart: yes
Scott Shelhart: Peggy George (guest-0): this background is really helpful!
Kelsey Shelhart: I think I got it. It may not be right, but it works
Scott Shelhart: Ill come help. Hang on
MaryBeth Hertz: This is fascinating to think about alongside of disruption theory in Disrupting Class
Chris Sloan: Disrupting Class ... good book
Scott Shelhart: Yes, I'm reading it for the 2nd time
Chad Sansing: Interesting - dovetails into a book I'm reading about "nations" at work in the American state, their power to assimilate residents, and their immutability to change.
me: I encourage folks to chat at http://edtechtalk.com/live
Every time someone chats here, we get a 'ding' on the stream and recording
Scott Shelhart: jeff - you can sut off teh ding on your end
Kelsey Shelhart: I like being on this end on the chat... you get to see more
Chad Sansing:Responsibility to kids in schools is a primary driver of the tension between some ideas on the Coöp.
MaryBeth Hertz: I just wrote about the idea of Change W/In and W/out the System. I guess I need to read Deborah's book! http://mbteach.com/?p=403
Chad Sansing: @MB: EduCon book group
Scott Shelhart: There are others in the other chat
Plus... the other chat is recorded for async use later. This chat is not recored. best if we use the other one if possible
Chad Sansing: @Scott: I will crosspost hereafter; thanks for the help.
Scott Shelhart: ...that's my job
Scott Shelhart:jackiegerstein (guest-1552): Sad - that time in education has to be spent unlearning - what are the ethics behind this?
@jackie as far as ethics go---I think of it as guiding kids towards unlearning misconceptions about what learning is and looks like that they may get from the way schools are now structured (read: high stakes testing)
Scott Shelhart:jackiegerstein (guest-1552): Bringing Schools Back to Life: Schools as Living Systems
in Creating Successful School Systems: by Margaret Wheatleyhttp://margaretwheatley.com/articles/lifetoschools.htmldiscusses start anywhere follow it everywher
Scott Shelhart:jackiegerstein (guest-1552): Education as it should be – passion-based.
Montessori Methods – Worth a (Re)Lookhttp://usergeneratededucation.wordpress.com/2011/07/25/montessori-method...
Kelsey Shelhart: these people ar posting interesting things faster than I can write!
Scott Shelhart: The other chat is recorded. You can read the archive later. Focus on the live coversation
Chad Sansing (guest-1547): @Ryan: are there principles kids can explore w/ materials they choose and bring? What is essential for kids to illustrate - and are their essentials in the "how" that can be tackled with different materials?
Scott Shelhart: Mary Beth (guest-1551): @jackie--ah, yes. Is school actually in the business of letting kids be themselves as it currently exists?
jackiegerstein (guest-1552): Stockholm’s School Without Classroomshttp://www.architizer.com/en_us/blog/dyn/37250/vittra/
Ryan White: @Scott I think they could definitely do that, it would just require a teacher who has enough experience to answer all the different types of questions
Scott Shelhart: Christina (guest-1556): Where do we even create, for ourselves, an intergenerational social fabric? Just thinking about it.
jackiegerstein (guest-1552): Why does the teacher need to have all the answers?
Kelsey Shelhart: they don't. people within the person asking's reach have to have all the answers. communitivly
Ryan White: @ Scott, for the same reason we dont need to re-invent the wheel
Scott Shelhart:jackiegerstein (guest-1552): De-conditioned from systems that worked very hard to condition us from very early years.
Kelsey Shelhart: nothing is unanswerable, you just have to know where to look
Scott Shelhart: It is interesting to listen to the conversation and frame it as an elementary teacher
The Art of Hosting and harvesting conversations that matter is a new practice of democracy that we really need in the world now."http://www.artofhosting.org/home/
Kelsey Shelhart: I made a diagram. I want to show it to everybody. when there's a good time.
Scott Shelhart: Christina (guest-1556): Writing Project resources about this .. here's one:http://www.nwp.org/cs/public/print/resource/2690
Scott Shelhart: Disclaimer - proud dad moment.... My kid rocks!
Karen Steffensen (@kstef2) (guest-1561): Part from book that resonates for me: Jugaad-- ingenuity, an invitation to imagination/play, to reinvent...
Kelsey Shelhart: Your kid is just like you, therefore... you rock!
MaryBeth Hertz: Yes she is, Scott!
Chris Sloan: rock on Shelharts
Scott Shelhart: MaryBeth - What grade do you teach?
MaryBeth Hertz: I teach grades K-7 technology (K-2 netbook cart) 3-7 in a computer lab
Scott Shelhart: Sounds challenging, but fun
MaryBeth Hertz: It is fun, but I love my robotics club best
MaryBeth Hertz: Bye guys!
Ryan White: Adios!
Chad Sansing: ¡Adios!