Conversations Episode 59

Post-Show description: 

For our first show of 2010, we discussed the topic "What is your innovation in education, and why does it matter?"  This conversation was started by Ben Wilkoff, so naturally we invited him to join us on the show.  Ginger Lewman also came into the skype call and the chat room was hopping.  Enjoy!

For our first show of 2010, we discussed the topic "What is your innovation in education, and why does it matter?"  This conversation was started by Ben Wilkoff, so naturally we invited him to join us on the show.  Ginger Lewman also came into the skype call and the chat room was hopping.  Enjoy!


Chat Archive:

 11:18:09  sheila : Hi Ben!

 11:20:41  sheila : Welcome Scott!

 11:20:48  Scott Shelhart : Good morning

 11:21:51  MariaK : Hi everyone - getting set up now - where is Lisa?

 11:22:06  MariaK : Hi Ben - Thanks for joining us today

 11:22:07  sheila2 : She's here.

 11:22:25  MariaK : I'm set up to stream

 11:22:45  sheila2 : me too

 11:22:48  MariaK : So we don't have the fan noise from you know who!

 11:23:50  Ben Wilkoff : Of course

 11:24:05  Ben Wilkoff : I'm on skype for sound check... will you add me to the call?

 11:24:33  Scott Shelhart : UStream or shoutcast today?

 11:24:39  MariaK : both

 11:24:42  sheila2 : both today

 11:24:53  Scott Shelhart : :D

 11:25:10  MariaK : ustream for listening and  shoutcast or recording

 11:28:39  sheila2 : Welcome dennisar, mrboyer, mr anderson!

 11:28:55  mrboyer : Thank you

 11:28:55  dennisar : Hello sheila2

 11:29:16  mr anderson : thank you, hello shelia2, hello all

 11:29:26  dennisar : Ni Ben, Lisa and Maria

 11:29:35  sheila2 : Hi CathyE

 11:29:43  Ben Wilkoff : Hello

 11:30:08  dennisar : What time are you live?

 11:30:25  sheila2 : Soon!

 11:30:47  dennisar : My friends call me Dennis.

 11:31:13  Maureen : Good morning all.

 11:31:39  dennisar : Recovering from a snowstorm in Massachusetts.

 11:31:39  Scott Shelhart : got sound

 11:31:44  Maureen : It's up...

 11:31:49  Lisa Parisi : Stream is up at ETTA.

 11:32:14  Maureen : Thanks for tweeting this... I thought you were still on vacation

 11:33:17  Lisa Parisi : Hello Everyone

 11:33:19  dennisar : Twenty ten

 11:33:27  dennisar : NPR decided

 11:33:51  dennisar : Hello Lisa

 11:34:03  McTeach : Good morning!

 11:34:40  Lisa Parisi : Hello Dennisar, McTeach, and Courosa.

 11:34:47  Lisa Parisi : Welcome CalArmstrong

 11:34:52  Lisa Parisi : Hello everyone.

 11:34:53  Ben Wilkoff : Hey Alec

 11:34:58  Ben Wilkoff : Hey Ginger

 11:34:59  McTeach : Hello Lisa...Happy New Year!

 11:35:00  Lisa Parisi : Wings on Water...nice name

 11:35:04  Lisa Parisi : Hi Ginger

 11:35:10  GingerTPLC : Hello, everyone!

 11:35:37  wingsonwater03 : thanks.

 11:36:01  Lisa Parisi : Welcome Pat and Jackie

 11:36:07  jackiegerstein : Hi Lisa

 11:36:10  loonyhiker :  hi y'all! i hope u r feeling better lisa!

 11:36:57  sheila : Welcome omyers!

 11:37:36  GingerTPLC : Man, I remember when she was born! It was just yesterday, right?

 11:37:43  Lorna Costantini : Happy New Year

 11:37:52  Ben Wilkoff : Indeed

 11:38:04  sheila : Welcome tansmom!

 11:38:34  tansmom : thanks!  Happy New Year to everyone ;)

 11:39:33  sheila : Welcome Sarah and Lisa

 11:39:38  MariaK : Hello everyone - thanks for joining us today!

 11:39:46  GingerTPLC : Someday I'm getting to EduCon.

 11:39:47  Lisa Thumann : Hi Sheila - Happy New Year everyone

 11:39:57  Sarah Sutter : Hi everyone!

 11:40:20  loonyhiker : hey, i thought that was me! :)

 11:40:34  jackiegerstein : Prefer the word share rather than copy -

 11:40:34  tansmom : but that's what is great about a pln

 11:40:43  Sarah Sutter : So glad you do share, Lisa.

 11:40:55  jackiegerstein : Don't we all remix in some way or another?

 11:41:03  Maureen : I think that many of us do that. I love getting ideas from others and remixing them. Beats worksheets.

 11:41:04  Sarah Sutter : You also synthesize well - remixing but with focus and improvement.

 11:41:12  Lisa Parisi : ANyone else want to join the skype chat?

 11:41:18  loonyhiker : i think innovators know how to find resources

 11:41:33  Lisa Thumann : Sharing is so important

 11:41:36  Sarah Sutter : @loonyhiker And are willing to use them in the classroom

 11:41:41  Lisa Parisi : Yes, Lisa, I agree

 11:41:58  Lisa Thumann : Some educators just aren't sharing yet

 11:42:05  Maureen : I'm not innovative- just "pushy". Trying to get my teachers to take a look at what they are doing and think about how they can make it better.

 11:42:05  Lisa Thumann : I find it frustrating

 11:42:06 : Transparent learning and sharing heightens innovation opportunities

 11:42:09  GingerTPLC : I think we live in an innovative group, many of us, esp compared to many?

 11:42:18 : juxtaposing disparate ideas foster innovation

 11:42:32  loonyhiker : i think innovators also are willing to take risks, try new things

 11:42:34  Lisa Parisi : Hello Miguel

 11:42:44  omyers : :? just dropped by on my way to have lunch with a long time friend.  I think sharing/collaoration = 21st century. Check you again sometime. :)

 11:42:48 : @LisaParisi howdy!

 11:43:03  Maureen : @Lisa T- Do you mean not everyone blogs? or?

 11:43:13  Lisa Parisi : LOL Maureen

 11:43:18  GingerTPLC : An inventor is nothing w/o viral marketing nowadays.

 11:43:40  Lisa Thumann : Maureen - No actually, many teachers are still not willing to talk about what works in their classrooms

 11:43:50  Lisa Thumann : lesson plans, and such

 11:43:54  mrboyer : I have family there as well

 11:44:05  Sarah Sutter : @lisa thumann Or willing to talk about what's NOT working when they try something. Asking for ideas is hard.

 11:44:13  loonyhiker : @Lisa in my grad class, i have to require them to try blogging

 11:44:24  Lisa Parisi : Talking about what's not working is dangerous sometimes.

 11:44:25  Maureen : I share what I am doing with kids, but I think I would get fired if I actually wrote about what I think.

 11:44:27 : teachers lack self-confidence to share in public when they're being bashed everywhere, told by central office they can't teach the C&I scope and sequence right

 11:44:38  loonyhiker : @Lisa T - i just want them to try it and maybe they will like it

 11:44:39  MariaK : I'm wondering if everyine has to have a blog in order to share.

 11:44:56 : @Maureen exactly because compliance is key to k-12 school environments in US...but what about other countries?

 11:44:56  Sarah Sutter : My blog isn't where I share most, actually.

 11:45:12  Maureen : @MariaK I think it's great to have a blog, but I share in other ways.

 11:45:13  GingerTPLC : @Maria, I don't blog.

 11:45:14  Lisa Thumann : I have been trying to get teachers to share in a Diigo group

 11:45:21  MariaK : I think there are other ways of being transparent, share and collaborate besides blogging your thoughts

 11:45:31  GingerTPLC : I know that's some sort of heresy, but I don't think it's my strength.

 11:45:36  Sarah Sutter : Wikis, conference (online or f2f) presentations, nings, chats, etc. are more productive for me and where I share more.

 11:45:44  Lisa Thumann : I don't think there is any one tool that will work for eveyone - but I am sure we all agree on that...I think

 11:46:36  loonyhiker : i seem to have more conversation on my blogs than on my wiki

 11:46:51  Maureen : @LisaT I'm "making" all my teachers join diigo tomorrow. It's a mandatory tech workshop. I'm talking about copyright and then helping with the blogging workshops. But I really want them to start to see possibilities.

 11:47:11  jackiegerstein : I have seen some of the best conversations via Twitter

 11:47:15 : What about reflective practice that allows for quiet reflection before production? Hmm...Krashen's "silent period" among language learners is a nice descrip

 11:47:19  tansmom : It's scary to present/share at conferences because you/I always think that I am not doing anything new and interesting, but I have found that we are all at different levels, and there always seems to be someone who can learn from you

 11:47:49  GingerTPLC : Indeed @tansmom! Very true!

 11:47:52  Lisa Thumann : Maureen - will there be a group for them or just for bookmarking?

 11:48:15  Lisa Thumann : Isn't lurking or soaking in knowledge at Educon a baby step?

 11:48:26 : Is what the school district is encouraging teachers to do, working? And why is that not shared? Is there a threshold of dis-satisfaction required for participation? or performance that just isn't worth sharing?

 11:48:28  jackiegerstein : Agreed @tansmom - introverts and as some of my Native American students have noted, "Our culture lets ideas sit for a while in order to gain understandings prior to articulate - they jokingly state that "white" people tend to blurt things out.

 11:48:57  Lisa Parisi : I think so Lisa Thumann

 11:49:04  Maureen : @Lisa I set up groups for the kids- by class from grade 4-9, and I will set up one for the school- but really want them to see all the different groups of educators that they can learn from. Not sure that a school-wide (preK-9) is terribly useful.

 11:49:18  buckinsand : depending on how you define "innovation" .. it could be argued that to be an effective instructor .. you need to be an innovator.. My case? Even if you take an idea from someone else.. you need to be thinking of your learners .. and adapting it to meet their needs.

 11:49:21 : i agree that is a lot of pressure

 11:49:24  kath : I would agree that that is a lot of pressure.   Sometimes we are just trying to keep up with the pace.  To have to create something new every day really is hard.

 11:50:16  jackiegerstein : If one changes the sharables in any form then it is innovative.

 11:50:20  Sarah Sutter : Sometimes the innovation isn't coming up with something new, but implementing something someone else has tried but is new to you, or new to your learners, but more of a beta phase than as an originator.

 11:50:25 : consider students in CHina and India are working 20 hours a day to get ready for the future. How much time are we spending just keeping up?

 11:50:32  buckinsand : I would agree Sarah..

 11:50:46  Lisa Thumann : Ho about implementation?

 11:50:51  Lisa Thumann : How about?

 11:50:56  Ben Wilkoff : Shifting Context for what you share is innovative.

 11:50:57  buckinsand : sorry but to do otherwise.. is to be prescriptive....

 11:51:03  Maureen : I have to try to be proactive vs reactive every day and that's about all I can handle.

 11:51:09  kath : I think sometimes we do new things that are innovative to someone else, but because we use them all the time we don't think of them as innovative.

 11:51:16  Sarah Sutter : I bet each of us do things for the first time in our building or district on a regular basis.

 11:51:28  tansmom : @kath agreed

 11:51:28  aforgrave (Andrew) : perhaps sucessful implementation can be as challenging as innovating something new

 11:51:31  Ben Wilkoff : Creation doesn't have to have to have a narrow focus.

 11:51:35  Lorna Costantini : @kath I agree whole heartedly

 11:51:44  Maureen : @Sarah I do that, but I am copying what i learned from someone else

 11:51:48  buckinsand : I'd agree Andrew..

 11:51:55  mrboyer : It's harder for me to see something through to the end, unfortunately. I have big ideas to begin with and then tend to scale them down a lot.

 11:52:08  Lisa Thumann : Maureen - I think that's fine - you do it your way though I'm sure

 11:52:12  loonyhiker : it is funny how different people see me compared to how i see myself

 11:52:25  tansmom : it may also be looking at not just do we allow ourselves to be innovative, but do we give our students time to be innovative?

 11:52:28  Sarah Sutter : @maureen Absolutely! Then if we share what we've done with others in our f2f world, AND in our PLN, the ripple continues out.

 11:52:39  jackiegerstein : like the prescriptive curriculum forces onto some teachers/districts

 11:52:40 : each of us sharing something we're doing provides the raw material for innovation that blends those actions in diff ways than originally intended

 11:52:41  Maureen : Is this kind of like that quote that is making the rounds -something like I don't care about what your iphone does, you use it, you didn't invent it...

 11:53:03  Sarah Sutter : @tansmom - That is so key! Sometimes (and I teach art) getting kids to be innovative is the hardest thing I do - and the most important.

 11:53:06  Lisa Parisi : Anyone want in on the skype call?

 11:53:12  Maureen : I probably won't invent stuff, but try to use it.

 11:53:21  Lisa Thumann : Back to how you implement it.

 11:53:31  aforgrave (Andrew) : Perhaps being actively involved in questioning what we're doing and what/how we can be doing it better (reflective practitioner) is what Ben was talking about -- being engaged in improvement ...

 11:53:32  buckinsand : It's all relative isn't it? Innovation.

 11:53:45  buckinsand : Yes..

 11:54:17  buckinsand : I'd agree.. with Ben. ... but go one step further.

 11:54:27  Sarah Sutter : @andrew I agree. Engagment in the improvement - it takes many rounds if doing / trying / implementing / refining to make things better. Each of us play a role in there somewhere.

 11:54:31  buckinsand : We need to share what we've learned and reflected upon...

 11:54:33  GingerTPLC : ...why does it matter... 

 11:54:41  Lisa Thumann : :)

 11:55:04  buckinsand : to promote good practice or best practices..

 11:55:13  GingerTPLC : This question is fitting well with a project I've been working on for self, colleagues, and kids.

 11:55:22  jackiegerstein : So then what is the connection between innovation and reflective practice?

 11:55:25  buckinsand : that promote even better improvements.. refinements.. avoid reinventing the wheel

 11:55:30  tansmom : right, because on a different level, my innovation every day might be taking the risk of doing things differently than my colleagues for the sake of my students and what I feel is best for them

 11:55:48  buckinsand : .. and you discover what works and what doesn't work.

 11:56:14  buckinsand : and hopefully identify what common characteristics or variables you had control of to realize that success.

 11:56:22  aforgrave (Andrew) : All we need is a huge whack of bulldozers to clear those Starfish from the beach in record time ...

 11:56:31  loonyhiker : i kind of like the exploration of finding out what works and doesn't work for me

 11:56:36  GingerTPLC : Ben, you make my heart feel more at ease. When I talk about TPLC, people often ask about scaling and I have nothing to say. I'm simply action research and I dont' think it NEEDS to be scalable.

 11:56:38  sheila : Four steps to learning. First step is unconscious incompetence. Awkward but necessary step.

 11:57:12  loonyhiker : @sheila i think i say in that first step a little too long :)

 11:57:15  buckinsand : ... what is TPLC?

 11:57:27  Lisa Parisi : LOL Loony Hiker I was just going to say that

 11:57:40  Lisa Parisi : TPLC - Turning Point Learning Center

 11:57:43  sheila : :)

 11:57:48  jackiegerstein : @aforgrave - what is the bulldozer that will put those starfish back into the sea?

 11:57:50  buckinsand : Thanks

 11:57:55  Lisa Parisi : Welcome Paula

 11:58:16  GingerTPLC : Sorry. Turning Point Learning Center is a charter school in Emporia Kansas. It's my life's work for now.

 11:58:36  Paula Naugle : Hi Lisa and everybody.

 11:58:44  aforgrave (Andrew) : @jackiegerstein -- my point was that perhaps the Starfish aren't looking for a bulldozer solution ..

 11:58:56  GingerTPLC : Creating space that allows kids to be innovative.

 11:59:00  jackiegerstein : What are they looking for?

 11:59:21  aforgrave (Andrew) : More people on the beach ..

 11:59:28  jackiegerstein : Cool

 12:00:24  tansmom : you change them as learners

 12:00:26  Sarah Sutter : @Lisa P It's great that you're empowering the kids enough to ASK for what they want with some positive expectation that they might actually get it.

 12:01:11  Sarah Sutter : Whatever we can do to make the kids be active and empowered learners, the better off we are in the long run.

 12:01:23  loonyhiker : i think u do make a difference - they take this new learning and build on it

 12:02:08  kath : WE absolutely have to believe that what we do make a difference.  Maybe not in every child every time, but if we touch a few hopefully ....

 12:02:18  buckinsand : Sorry but would such a strategy work with all learners though? What kind of pre-reqs would need to be in place .. for this to work?

 12:02:40  Lorna Costantini : will it surprise you if I said - empower the parent - teach the parents the values

 12:02:56  Lorna Costantini : of video of classroom blogging

 12:03:03  loonyhiker : when i had my class evaluate my program each semester - they r scared - afraid to be honest

 12:03:04  aforgrave (Andrew) : LOL

 12:03:09  buckinsand : I'm just thinking of the likelihood of that ever being realized where I am..

 12:03:23  buckinsand : remote at best.

 12:03:35  tansmom : @buckinsand- say more...

 12:03:44  buckinsand : am working in the Middle East.

 12:03:46  McTeach : I'm always happy to let kids make suggestions...they usually have better ideas than I do!

 12:04:12  Sarah Sutter : More often we need to make the kids take active roles in decision making. Too often they just don't think they have a choice because they haven't been asked to engage in their own learning in that way. They are so passive . . .

 12:04:15  buckinsand : Societal values are very different than the ones that underlie the type of approach being presented here.

 12:04:55  tansmom : @buckinsand ahhh a personal hurdle for sure

 12:05:02  Ben Wilkoff :  This was the original blog post I posed the question within:

 12:05:09  Sarah Sutter : @McTeach Absolutely! The kids are a great resource for teachers who are wiling to engage their brain power in meaningful ways.

 12:05:39  tansmom : process not product

 12:05:43  buckinsand : Thanks Ben

 12:05:48  Ben Wilkoff : If you have an answer to the question... you can always add it to the Google Form there.

 12:05:57  Ben Wilkoff : Or in the blog comments.

 12:06:05  McTeach : @Sarah It also allows my kids to feel they have a say in their education

 12:06:16  Sarah Sutter : Thanks for asking such a good question, Ben.

 12:07:05  Ben Wilkoff : @Sarah... thanks for helping me think it through.

 12:07:36  buckinsand : Nice thread. Thanks for the link.

 12:07:47  Sarah Sutter : @McTeach It's definitely a two-way street / win-win situation. It's not a smooth process, which puts off some teachers. The PLN support gets us through the bumpy parts together.

 12:08:06  tansmom : what's cool is to see them take the tools you give them as a learner and use them on thier own time..even if they are not allowed to use it at school in the future

 12:08:06  buckinsand : PLN?

 12:08:08  Lorna Costantini : they should not have to think in terms of different - students should think that what they are doing in innovation is the norm

 12:08:26  Sarah Sutter : @buckinsand Personal Learning Network

 12:08:26  McTeach : @Sarah Absolutely!! If it weren't for my PLN I would feel totally alone and would be so sure that I was doing my job "wrong"!

 12:08:30  Maureen : I think that we are not as respectful of the teachers in this process as we are of the kids at times. Do we give them the time to know how they learn, why they learn? Time to collaborate and share with one another? It certainly doesn't happen in my school.

 12:09:31  Lisa Parisi : @buckinsand I am so glad you feel comfortable enough to keep asking these questions.  Sorry we keep talking in teched speak.  Keep asking what we mean, please.

 12:10:01  Lisa Parisi : @maureen HOw much time you really give your kids?

 12:10:13  Lisa Parisi : I think we give adults too much time to learn.

 12:10:57  sheila : Maybe I should share more of my pedagogy with the students when I choose certain tools for them to learn. Let them know my results and why I chose the activities to meet those results.

 12:11:02  buckinsand : How do you mean Lisa?

 12:11:04  MariaK : Learning is a personal journey - some need little time and others need so much more. I believe this is true for all learners.

 12:11:56  buckinsand : I find adults are more task / results driven and thus often get to where they want to go .. pretty fast. Mind you .. it may not be the same place that we had planned to go

 12:12:04  jackiegerstein : Good teaching is tailoring the lessons to the individual needs of ALL students - not making the students fit the lesson

 12:12:09  Sarah Sutter : @Lisa P - We give them an "out" for not having learned something yet, but we don't actually give them time for learning. When is the last time anyone had open time for teachers to learn what they wanted to learn? Spending time practicing something that was shown in 45 minutes of PD? Yes, they should be spending 15 minutes a day on their own, or whatever, but some people learn best with 2-3 hours of supported learning . . . and that happens really rarely.

 12:12:13  Lisa Parisi : I find adults give up too easily

 12:12:18  kath : As an "old dog" trying to learn new tricks. I have just found that the best thing for me to do is ,while getting info where I can, to just jump in and try something.  Even it it isn't 100% effective there are things I learned and will do differently.

 12:12:33  tsterling : i find that students rarely challenge what you give them to do. adults almost always challenge new learning. i prefer the kids! :)

 12:12:33  MariaK : I also think that learning happens because of the "environment". Sometimes we need to look at the environment we create for learners. It needs to feel like a safe environment for adult learners as well as younger learners.

 12:12:59  GingerTPLC : Lately I've been on the search for the "essence" of education, of teaching and learning. Seems like an easy quest.

 12:13:02  Maureen : @Lisa I don't give my kids enough time for reflection. I think that we expect adults to do all the behind the scenes work on their own- and many are not equipped to do this. If I didn't have my PLN I would be lost. I guess part of my reaction is that I recently read a book by an educator who categorized others as "bad" teachers or "lazy". I think that we have to come into the discussion with the presumption that every one is doing their best as they know it and go from there.

 12:13:39  Maureen : @Maria- I don't think that school feels like  a "safe" place for many educators

 12:13:42  Lisa Parisi : @Maureen I have actually started building in reflection into every project.  I like that part.  I like to hear what they have to say.

 12:13:47  kath : @Maureen, I would agree.  I think most teachers are really trying to do their bery vest.

 12:13:58  kath : or very best.

 12:14:14  buckinsand : problem with "reflection" for administrators is it isn't measurable and quantifiable

 12:14:37  buckinsand : thus difficult to mark.. and demonstrate "progress"

 12:14:45  buckinsand : collective "progress"

 12:14:47  tsterling : yes, i agree with the idea of a safe environment, esp for adult learners. who wants to look like they don't know what they are doing?

 12:14:58  Lisa Parisi : @kath You are way more optimistic than I.  I don't believe all teachers always try their best.  I think many teachers search for the easy way of doing things.

 12:15:00  MariaK : If we provide more sandboxes for adults where they can build, rebuild and try again, perhaps there would be more learning. Exploration and scaffolding the learners can mover them further. We provide that for young learners, why not for adults.

 12:16:28  buckinsand : what about "virtual sandboxes" .. ;-)

 12:16:28  buckinsand : what about "virtual sandboxes" .. ;-)

 12:16:28  tsterling : sandboxes are great ideas. how do you get the institution (administrators) to value play time for adults?

 12:16:28  sheila : @buckinsand - I'm feeling that more and more. . .

 12:16:28  sheila : @buckinsand - I'm feeling that more and more . . 

 12:16:28  aforgrave (Andrew) : Sandboxes are great. We DO need them for adults.

 12:16:28  Sarah Sutter : @buckinsand Reflection for teachers or reflection for students? Both, I think, are really important. It's not done across all content areas, but in art we do a great deal of reflection on learning and products and process - and we definitely have it as part of a grading process/ assessment process.

 12:16:28  Maureen : @maria I think that as teachers we say it's OK to fail, that's how you learn, but don't extend that to teachers.

 12:16:29  tansmom : @MariaK amen to that

 12:17:52  sheila : @buckinsand - I'm feeling that more and more. . . and feel I need to justify reflection for students.

 12:18:06  Maureen : Just as an aside- did the chat stop for you and then come roaring back and have Flood Warning in red? 

 12:18:26  Lisa Parisi : @maureen That was my comment basis earlier...teachers are in danger when they talk about problems or failures in the classroom.

 12:18:26  sheila : It did stop for me too Maureen

 12:18:27  Sarah Sutter : @maureen - yep, kicked me out.

 12:18:36  GingerTPLC : Question 1 of 365: Why is Augmented Reality Important?

 12:18:42  buckinsand : Yep.. I can see that "reflection" is ideal for something like Art, etc. But how is it actually marked in the end? On their writing? Does it get a letter grade? Are you really the best judge of their progress .. and does it warrant a letter grade?

 12:19:20  GingerTPLC : Ben is generous to post the text of his work with his podcasts for visual learners like me.

 12:19:23  Paula Naugle : Too many teachers feel they have to be the expert. So if they have not mastered a technology, they will not use it with their students. They have to change this mindset and realize they can learn awith or from their students on how to use tech.

 12:19:40  buckinsand : My take on reflection? It needs to be encouraged .. but its really problematic to be assessing it.

 12:19:47  Maureen : @Lisa- but it happens all the time. Every time I try something new, it's a crap shoot. I've had some spectacular failures... and tell the kids sorry, that didn't work.

 12:20:04  Sarah Sutter : @buckinsand It's more about the thought process - the act of reflecting, and the depth of that reflection. Did the student engage in the reflection honestly? Evaluate their successes and challenges and failures? Options for oral or written or video or other reflections to level the playing field.

 12:20:08  tansmom : @buckinsand I guess you can't worry about assessing..worry about growing independent learners

 12:20:43  Lisa Parisi : But sometimes when you tell others about your failures, the administration comes down to find out about it or other teachers spread your failures around.

 12:20:51  buckinsand : You're right tansmom.. so long as we have administrators on educational leaders that are prepared to "fund" me to promote it

 12:20:51  sheila :

 12:21:06  tansmom : @Lisa bummer..that doesn't happen in my school

 12:21:08  loonyhiker : thx @sheila

 12:21:52  Maureen : @Lisa- I tried etherpad with 4th graders- it was awful. First time I tried collaborative spreadsheets with 7th graders... chaos. I learned how to do it better, kids learned- but I sure wouldn't want to be observed doing it.

 12:21:53  Sarah Sutter : @Lisa P I don't see that as much in my building. Teachers are happy to brainstorm to address failures in positive way.

 12:22:28  aforgrave (Andrew) : @thecleversheep posted about AR this morning:

 12:22:35  Lisa Parisi : I wish I worked in a situation like that.  The admin certainly wants us to be that way but they do everything to discourage it.

 12:22:51  Alan : He wants information overload :P

 12:22:53  tansmom : the first time I took all of my 3rd graders into google docs is was a nightmare, but they thought it was great to help me figure it all out

 12:23:02  Lisa Parisi : Thanks for the link, Andrew

 12:23:22  buckinsand : Sorry.. what's AR?

 12:23:48  buckinsand : got it "augmented reality"..

 12:23:53  Maureen : @Lisa I can talk about my failures with a few friends at school, but it's not the way we usually communicate as a school- we  don't celebrate the learning by trial and error.

 12:24:05  sheila : With our 1:1 pilot program we are trying to document all of the learning that takes place before the product. Documenting process is time consuming, but we feel it's necessary to keep the program going. Info for educators and non-educators.

 12:24:12  tansmom : the trouble with reflection and creativity, etc.  is that it does take time...and I still have to teach to that all important TEST

 12:24:14  aforgrave (Andrew) : William Gibsons's 2007 novel "Spook Country" nicely portrays and highlights the power/disconnect that AR can provide (book set pretty much in current day).

 12:25:03  Lisa Parisi : Ah, the test, @tansmom

 12:25:19  McTeach : And why don't we ask ourselves that same question? Do we realize how far we've come?

 12:25:29  Alan : I think people forget that AR is going to be advertizing, not simply objective information.

 12:25:48  Maureen : If we could really embrace portfolios in my school and the reflection piece of it- we could document our learning- both as teachers and students.

 12:26:03  buckinsand : there lies the tension between "real learning" (reflection) and "learning" via testing

 12:26:07  tansmom : @McTeach I don't think we take time to give ourselves credit for how "out there' we probably are compared to some other teachers

 12:26:13  McTeach : Maureen, that's what I would love to see us do at our school!

 12:26:14  Paula Naugle : I agree @Maureen.

 12:26:17  Ben Wilkoff : And this is the space that I am currently trying to create: (just a toy right now... but I really love feedback)

 12:26:24  McTeach : @tansmom I so agree!!

 12:26:58  buckinsand : Agreed Maureen.

 12:27:12  Ben Wilkoff : I'm not sure that my last post went through...

 12:27:16  Sarah Sutter : @Ben Thank you for including Design in your new space! Often overlooked . . .

 12:27:23  Alan : (Paranthetically) This conversation would be more coherent in a Google Wave :)

 12:27:32  jackiegerstein : Younger kids enjoy the process more than the products - we should learn from them

 12:27:59  Ben Wilkoff : @Alan The co-creation is definitely huge.

 12:28:01  aforgrave (Andrew) : @Alan -- which part of the conversation(s)?

 12:28:07  Alan : @ jackiegerstein: they do love the process

 12:28:08  McTeach : Wow! That went by fast!!

 12:28:20  jackiegerstein : great conversations!

 12:28:28  Sarah Sutter : Yes! Educon!

 12:28:43  Paula Naugle : Last year the couple of skype calls I tried ranged from horrible to somewhat successful. This year all of my Skype collaboration has worked well. I needed to learn how to troublshoot the tech, but to someone who walks in and observes they think it is easy.

 12:28:44  buckinsand : ... good idea to use Wave. Multiple threads to follow... weaving

 12:29:00  Alan : there seem to be multiple threads to this discussion and the responses fall chronologically rather than in proximity

 12:29:25  GingerTPLC :

 12:29:37  buckinsand : .. Wave would invite more reflection..

 12:29:39  Maureen : Not ready for Wave yet...

 12:29:52  jackiegerstein : Yes - it would have been great to have these sub-conversations categorical - I understand Alan

 12:30:12  loonyhiker : thank u for a wonderful conversation today!

 12:30:20  loonyhiker : sorry i have to go

 12:30:29  buckinsand : .. Wave would support the organic growth of those sub categories..

 12:30:47  Sarah Sutter : Thank heavens the chat gets archived.

 12:30:51  Lorna Costantini : thanks to all the innovators for sharing

 12:30:57  jackiegerstein : I have the belief that all of those today because they are here are innovators

 12:31:06  jackiegerstein : here today

 12:31:08  Alan : Eventually the wave-like feature will be encorporated into most applications

 12:31:40  jackiegerstein : thanks everone!

 12:31:54  aforgrave (Andrew) : Thanks, everyone!

 12:31:56  Ben Wilkoff : Thanks so much for having me and for adding to my learning.

 12:32:00  Paula Naugle : Thanks everyone and Happy New Year.

 12:32:00  tansmom : Nice chat- thanks for the food for thought

 12:32:04  Lisa Parisi :

 12:32:13  Sarah Sutter : Great show today. See a bunch of you at Educon at the end of the month. Great way to start the year.

 12:32:16  Alan : Came late, next time I might make it for the whole thing :D

 12:32:38  Alan : Too many places to be or things to read :@

 12:32:40  McTeach : Surviving the first week back after vacation???

 12:32:42  Lisa Parisi : Thank you all for coming.

 12:32:45  GingerTPLC : Thank you for including me again. Sorry I'm so full of questions today and not maybe a very good conversationalist today. :( That's where I am at the end of Winter Break.

 12:33:06  Lisa Parisi : Being full of questions is a great way to have a conversation.

 12:33:31  Ben Wilkoff : Goodbye

 12:33:34  Sarah Sutter : Bye!

 12:33:41  McTeach : Goodbye!