EdTechTalk#58 - Chat Transcript
18:42:59 dave-on-air: hi stephen
18:43:09 Stephen_Downes: Hiya
18:45:06 dave-on-air: hey brad
18:45:11 dave-on-air: hope you have a coffee ready
18:45:16 Brad_Hicks: Hi guys - have to work today so unfortunately can't hang around to help as a guide
18:45:45 Brad_Hicks: I really would have liked to listen in live to Stephen
18:45:46 JL: thanks for checking in anyway
18:46:39 dave-on-air: hey jason
18:46:45 Brad_Hicks: Hey Stephen, wy wife and I watched your Open University session live and were blown away by it - particularly my wife who had not heard you talk before
18:46:53 JasonR_(WCA_intern): NP
18:47:33 dave-on-air: hi michael
18:47:46 Brad_Hicks: ok have a good show guys i look forward to the podacst audio
18:48:09 Michael_Feldstein: hello
18:48:21 JL: Hello Michael
18:48:27 dave-on-air: start time is in about 14 minutes
18:48:31 JL: Delighted you're here
18:48:31 dave-on-air: we never start at the hour
18:48:32 dave-on-air: bad luck
18:49:08 Michael_Feldstein: Glad to be here
18:50:30 dave-on-air: hey ds
18:50:35 dave-on-air: and ageing_geek
18:50:44 DS: Hi everybody
18:52:31 JL: Hey DS
18:52:56 dave-on-air: hey nlowell
18:53:43 SusanEttenheim: hi everyone
18:53:48 DS: Hey Susan
18:53:49 dave-on-air: hey susan
18:54:41 SusanEttenheim: wanted to be here in case help was needed but then have to go finish making and serving dinner - got a little distracted before audio editing! - so will be in and out a bit later
18:55:00 JL: OK, thanks SE
18:55:58 barbara_in_ohio: greetings
18:56:07 dave-on-air: hey b!!!!
18:56:08 SusanEttenheim: compliments on the skypecast description for tonigh
18:56:10 dave-on-air: and cheryl
18:56:18 barbara_in_ohio: howdy
18:56:23 SusanEttenheim: hi barbara in ohio!
18:56:47 cheryloakes: Hi Barb long time no see
18:57:15 barbara_in_ohio: I am just off an 800 mile drive from (you'll appreciate this Cheryl) Wells maine and am somewhat brain dead
18:57:19 cheryloakes: Hi John
18:57:20 dave-on-air: hi john
18:57:33 John_Blake: Hey Cheryl
18:57:35 cheryloakes: Barb how was your visit in Wells.
18:57:37 barbara_in_ohio: Jeff asked me to send this to the chat room: http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2006/05/11/antisocial_netw.html
18:58:00 John_Blake: Dave how are you?
18:58:01 SusanEttenheim: am here for any help..
18:58:09 dave-on-air: all is well...
18:58:21 SusanEttenheim: standing by :)
18:58:23 John_Blake: ;)
18:58:41 SusanEttenheim: barb - why wells, maine?
18:58:57 SusanEttenheim: how long have you been in maine/
18:59:00 SusanEttenheim: ?
19:00:01 SusanEttenheim: my heart is starting to pound..
19:00:14 JasonR(intern): *choochoo*
19:00:27 John_Blake: news goodie goodie
19:00:53 SusanEttenheim: I wonder if everyone in the skypecast knows about the chat room?
19:00:59 John_Blake: how much lag time is there between the audio and us?
19:01:12 DS: 20 to 30 seconds typically re lag
19:01:18 John_Blake: Go Hurricanes
19:01:22 John_Blake: hehe
19:01:31 SusanEttenheim: ;)
19:01:47 SusanEttenheim: hi lee
19:01:52 John_Blake: *harp*
19:02:05 SusanEttenheim: wow this is really the place to be on a sunday night!
19:02:16 John_Blake: music does not work on Mac
19:02:16 JasonR(intern): There are 3 versions of Bill Number H.R.5319 for the 109th Congress (DOPA)... http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:H.R.5319:
19:02:39 SusanEttenheim: there's a great article on myspace in the ala journal this month
19:02:42 Lee: Hello
19:02:45 SusanEttenheim: hi mmmay
19:02:56 SusanEttenheim: you both sound great!
19:02:58 mmmay: Hello :)
19:03:21 JenW: skypecastlink please??
19:03:23 John_Blake: Thanks for the 3 version link...
19:03:33 SusanEttenheim: http://bumpontheblog.etowns.net/?p=73
19:03:38 JenW: thanks Jason
19:03:38 SusanEttenheim: have you all seen this?
19:03:45 SusanEttenheim: thanks jason
19:04:30 SusanEttenheim: hi jenn
19:04:39 Jennifer_M: Hello!
19:05:21 John_Blake: Hello Jonathan
19:05:34 jonathan_seal: Hellow all
19:05:43 JasonR(intern): BB patent in plain English... http://mfeldstein.com/index.php/weblog/permalink/the_blackboard_patent_c...
19:05:47 FrancesL: hello everyone from Vancouver, Canada
19:06:00 John_Blake: Hello FrancesL
19:06:11 FrancesL: hi John
19:06:19 sharon_p: greetings from Montréal Canada! I am eebee in the skypecast
19:06:27 DS: welcome from the "lower mainland" Frances, I'm in Victoria ;)
19:06:37 FrancesL: Hi dave
19:06:50 dave-on-air: hey all
19:06:59 JenW: very good group tonight
19:07:19 JasonR(intern): Deleting Our Personal Access act :< (props to JL)
19:08:15 Lee_Baber: Hi Cathy
19:08:19 Cathy_Evanoff: hello
19:09:09 SusanEttenheim: hi cathy
19:09:16 SusanEttenheim: good one jason
19:09:23 Cathy_Evanoff: Hi Susan
19:09:25 JasonR(intern): So private schools will continue to have access to online predators? *)
19:09:38 John_Blake: That Funding is something our district can not do without!
19:09:44 SusanEttenheim: you get what you pay for jason!
19:09:45 JL: Thank you for extending an invite to Blackboard to participate in this evening's EdTech program. While we appreciate your effort to include Blackboard, at this time we are unable to participate. Please find a few comments we hope you will provide for your audience during the program from Blackboard's president and CEO Michael Chasen: "I believe there has been a great deal of confusion about the scope of the patent and our intentions behind the legal action.
19:10:08 JL: Following is a brief history around our patent. After the release of our first products - back in 1998, a core group of people at Blackboard looked at the CMS technology available at the time and identified improvements that would enable the CMS to function as a true enterprise application for educational institutions. We focused our resources on developing solutions with the student-centric functionality to allow the Blackboard CMS to serve the increasingly complex needs of the industry. Though we were still in our early stages as a small player in the software industry, we recognized the importance of protecting our innovations in our products. As a result, seven years ago, we filed for patent protection on these developments in various countries around the world.
19:10:21 John_Blake: BOO
19:10:24 John_Blake: hehe
19:10:29 John_Blake: kidding
19:10:54 JL: Please know that the patent covers only specific features and functionality contained in the Blackboard system that were developed by the Blackboard team. We certainly did not invent e-learning or course management systems, and I am personally embarrassed that this is what some people have stated that Blackboard is claiming. Over the last decade and longer, fantastic advancements have been made throughout the e-learning industry by a diverse and passionate community of individuals and institutions and Blackboard is privileged to have been a contributor. We hope that such innovations will continue. We are asking Desire2Learn for a reasonable royalty for their use of our intellectual property, which is in line and consistent with industry practices -- similar to the way in which Blackboard pays royalties to numerous companies for use of ideas they have developed and patented."
19:10:57 John_Blake: is everyone listening to the audio?
19:11:04 FrancesL: yes
19:11:08 John_Blake: cool
19:11:15 Harold_Jarche: listening
19:11:21 SusanEttenheim: yes
19:11:29 SusanEttenheim: is anyone having trouble hearing?
19:11:50 Cathy_Evanoff: I am hearing just fine.
19:11:50 John_Blake: perfect here
19:11:58 JasonR(intern): No trouble with the Skypecast on my end
19:12:15 jonathan_seal: yes
19:12:16 JasonR(intern): JL, can you continue to transcribe everything Dave says. :)
19:12:55 Harold_Jarche: listening in chat - should I be in skypecast (where)?
19:13:05 John_Blake: explain Desire to Learn
19:13:14 Harold_Jarche: thanks
19:13:21 JasonR(intern): Harold. feel free to join the Skypecast
19:13:36 JL: http://www.desire2learn.com/patentinfo/
19:13:48 DS: D2L is a canadian software company
19:13:49 John_Blake: thanks
19:13:53 dave-on-air: http://mfeldstein.com/
19:14:21 JasonR(intern): If you join the Skypecast, you will muted in the beginning. Opportunities for commenting will follow a little later in the show.
19:14:29 Lee_Baber: Susan, I am having some audio drag..on and off
19:14:52 JoseR: The audio isn't great today.
19:15:16 JL: If you're having problems with Channel 1 - try Channel 3
19:15:16 jonathan_seal: What's the link to the wikipedia article?
19:15:32 JL: links are on the left side menu of EdTechTalk
19:15:47 jonathan_seal: Thanks
19:16:01 JoseR: I am listening via the skypecast. The audio is more clear now.
19:16:05 John_Blake: ok...I see the links, they are perfect..
19:16:22 Lee_Baber: Oh no
19:16:47 barbara_in_ohio: who is speaking on air now?
19:16:50 Lee_Baber: It is as bad as we thought....frantic
19:17:02 JL: Michael Feldstein
19:17:02 dave-on-air: http://mfeldstein.com/
19:17:03 Lee_Baber: that is Michael Feldstein
19:18:24 John_Blake: i.e. Apple Records vs. Apple Computers
19:18:46 JenW: is the pencil patented???
19:19:00 John_Blake: prob;y
19:19:07 jonathan_seal: if it isn't lets patent it soon.
19:19:19 John_Blake: hey Cheryl
19:19:33 johnm: Has the
19:19:41 John_Blake: how's the weather in Maine?
19:19:53 cheryloakes: :o I got booted off in Firefox, just getting back.
19:20:05 John_Blake: ouch
19:20:09 SusanEttenheim: brb
19:20:10 cheryloakes: The weather is actually very cool, no humidity.
19:20:13 John_Blake: Flock is really cool
19:20:21 cheryloakes: I've not tried flockyet
19:20:31 John_Blake: love the blogging features
19:20:38 cheryloakes: thanks, I'll look at it.
19:20:45 John_Blake: you will love it
19:20:54 John_Blake: integrated with Flickr
19:20:56 Lee_Baber: Yes, it can not be a patent on a "blanket" idea which obliterates others progression in an industry
19:20:58 johnm: has the "education community" ever gotten formal opinion from patent lawyers?
19:21:10 Lee_Baber: Good thought John
19:21:12 johnm: Is there a lobby for this "eduaction community?"
19:21:25 Stephen_Downes: you're in it
19:21:26 Lee_Baber: Michael said that was one step to take..checking with lawyers
19:21:33 DS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_virtual_learning_environments
19:21:51 dave-on-air: john that's a great question
19:21:51 John_Blake: I want to keep my Moodle...
19:22:19 John_Blake: Fee Free!
19:22:25 John_Blake: oh
19:22:29 JL: Patent Grant Review Process http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/com/strat21/action/sr2.htm
19:22:29 cheryloakes: Sorry if this was already asked, but where does NEA and other education unions stand?
19:22:46 John_Blake: they prbly do not have a clue
19:22:57 John_Blake: too cutting edge for NEA
19:23:04 John_Blake: I will ask
19:23:16 cheryloakes: thanks for asking.
19:23:29 johnm: groups are fine, but the reality is, the education community needs to have lawyers to help with this.
19:23:57 Harold_Jarche: maybe we need oraise money for a legafnd for educating ourselves
19:24:09 johnm: possibly
19:24:12 John_Blake: I will forward Michael's comments for our State Lobbyist
19:24:15 Harold_Jarche: legal fund
19:24:17 cheryloakes: Good topic, look at the full chat room.
19:24:19 johnm: something like that.
19:25:08 johnm: I think the higher education community has lawyers and lobbiests who could help with this as well as the next issue which is DOPA
19:25:08 John_Blake: ~30 in the chat room?
19:25:29 Lee_Baber: http://www.contentguard.com/
19:25:47 Lee_Baber: Yes, Stephen..good point
19:26:07 Lee_Baber: similar to our political system
19:26:56 JenW: what did D2L do differently than anyone else using BB??
19:26:58 cheryloakes: Jason, you are right on the ball, what a good host.
19:27:02 johnm: What about GNU and the free software association? Have they developed a sense of advocacy?
19:27:48 JasonR(intern): Oh noes, not a host, That's Jeff and Dave. I'm just an intern. :)
19:28:19 cheryloakes: I meant host in terms of the welcome committee and looking out for people, in a good way.:-)
19:28:20 dave-on-air: dopa next...
19:28:45 cheryloakes: good show Dave!
19:30:09 John_Blake: Cheryl, we need to count this as Professional Development ;)
19:30:10 johnm: It is interesting to define who "the community" really is. Do they have representation in front of business of government to advocate for issues such as those we are discussing at the moment?
19:30:29 Lee_Baber: Blackboard said "the patent covers only specific features and functionality contained in the Blackboard system that were developed by the Blackboard team. We certainly did not invent e-learning or course management systems" just to help new viewers
19:30:36 Michael_Feldstein: Thank you for coming, John.
19:30:46 cheryloakes: Good point, I will start logging these hours.
19:31:07 JenW: Why do you think D2L became the target of BB??
19:31:14 JenW: and not other companies??
19:32:17 Harold_Jarche: D2L is taking customers from Blackboard % WebCT
19:32:36 JenW: by using the BB idea or the BB software??
19:32:55 John_Blake: type the email
19:32:56 Michael_Feldstein: May I add a comment?REquest to John?
19:33:13 dave-on-air: coming at you
19:33:16 dave-on-air: micahel
19:33:17 John_Blake: k
19:33:20 Harold_Jarche: D2L has its own software
19:33:24 JenW: ty
19:33:53 John_Blake: is it like Moodle? or closer to BB?
19:34:03 Stephen_Downes: If you're on a mic, turn down the sound & use headphones :)
19:34:17 johnm: edtechtalk should start a group for patent lawyers who might be interested in this issues to help advocate on behalf of this "community"
19:34:25 DS: Canadian companies (see Blackberry as well) seem to be a popular target of patent litigation.
19:34:26 John_Blake: headphones please
19:34:39 johnm: wanna get on that Jeff and Dave :D :D
19:34:48 Michael_Feldstein: I'm on a headset.
19:34:50 John_Blake: sound is fine now
19:35:07 John_Blake: everything is cool sorry
19:35:35 John_Blake: Michael, love your blog!
19:35:43 Michael_Feldstein: thx
19:36:20 cheryloakes: Thanks to John for coming and talking.
19:36:20 barbara_in_ohio: it is ia toss up as to which is more controversial: the Bb patent stuff or DOPA
19:36:41 johnm: DOPA
19:36:45 johnm: dear
19:36:46 John_Blake: Good Luck to D2l
19:37:18 Stephen_Downes: DOPA in the US, Blackboard patent outside of the US
19:37:42 John_Blake: My Democratic Congressman voted for it
19:37:48 barbara_in_ohio: but as the US goes might also go the rest of the world?
19:37:55 sharon_p: DOPA, if it passes, is a precedent that Canadians will surely follow
19:38:00 Stephen_Downes: Not on DOPA
19:38:02 johnm: yep
19:38:10 JenW: As did mine -- but I wrote him and have a meeting with him on August 16th
19:38:12 cheryloakes: We need to send our govt. officials samples of what will no longer be available to us.
19:38:31 sharon_p: I would be interested about why Cdns might not necessarily follow...??
19:38:32 JenW: luckiily my local rep is quite accessible
19:38:33 Lee_Baber: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deleting_Online_Predators_Act_of_2006
19:38:49 cheryloakes: Examples of what we won't be able to access would make it more real to them, the only way to fight the media and predators.
19:38:49 carlaarena: in Brazil it's not a big issue...well, most people are not connected, jeff
19:39:13 carlaarena: most of the classes are very traditional...
19:39:16 John_Blake: Cheryl, there are so many Preditor stories in the local news media
19:39:25 JL: please ask for mic if you'd like to chime in
19:39:28 cheryloakes: So Carla, it is really important for you to have people blog with your students since they won't have local access.
19:39:28 sharon_p: I work in a very conservative school - once they see this... it's over
19:39:28 Stephen_Downes: I just can't see sweeping prohibition of types of website as being constitutional here
19:39:43 JasonR(intern): Has the industry responded? What does MySpace have to say?
19:39:48 carlaarena: teens are into IM, etc..but not blogging, not many of them...
19:39:51 johnm: It would be great if this group could come up with a draft letter to key Sentaors on the Committee
19:39:58 John_Blake: the political conservates rule the legislation
19:39:59 barbara_in_ohio: jeff and dave: I asked danah boyd to join you tonight on this but she could not make it... she has written extrensively on the subject of the important of thiongs like MySpace and Live Journal
19:40:10 johnm: Put in in the blogoshpere and have everyone send it
19:40:21 dave-on-air: would love to talk to you about it b.
19:40:25 John_Blake: go Stephens
19:40:54 barbara_in_ohio: danah's post:http://www.danah.org/papers/MySpaceDOPA.html
19:41:14 Lee_Baber: Who has made a good list of restrictions if passed
19:41:23 John_Blake: Good point
19:41:41 barbara_in_ohio: everything but wikipedia would be affected (in terms of multiple user sites)
19:41:43 cheryloakes: Would flickr, clustr maps, Frappr survive Dopa?
19:41:50 dave-on-air: nope
19:41:51 barbara_in_ohio: Frappr, Flickr, mySpace, LJ...
19:41:53 John_Blake: Supreme Court case in the making
19:41:56 barbara_in_ohio: yes
19:42:02 barbara_in_ohio: cheryl: yes
19:42:06 sharon_p: If enough bad press is given to this in the States - then other countries might regard it as too silly
19:42:16 barbara_in_ohio: because there is, by their terms, no supervision
19:42:20 Graham: In Spain recently, a student was held responsible for an anonymous comment on his blog and fined 400 Euros
19:42:25 JenW: Yes, I think this will become a freedom of speech -- or freedom to view??? issue
19:42:38 barbara_in_ohio: but if you read the legislation...it is NOT about limiting predators, it is about limiting access
19:42:44 cheryloakes: where are the librairians?
19:42:47 dave-on-air: yes
19:42:49 Michael_Feldstein: Unfortunately, it happens all the time.
19:42:56 Stephen_Downes: right barbara
19:42:56 sharon_p: so is this a matter of rewriting our AUPs?
19:42:58 John_Blake: who polices the Spainish fines? the teachers?
19:43:04 Michael_Feldstein: e.g., PATRIOT Act
19:43:10 JenW: Yes, I think AUP'S will be totally rewritten
19:43:21 Michael_Feldstein: That's signing statements. Slightly different.
19:43:28 Graham: in this case, John, the student blog was a private, non-school blog
19:43:36 John_Blake: I would love to see a good AUP that addresses MySpace etc
19:43:50 JenW: I think there will be so many addendums -- I hear it won't affect colleges -- but what about the students who are younger than 18 that ARE college students now?
19:44:02 cheryloakes: Carla AUP's are written acceptable use policies that all students/employees have to sign in school districts. If you break the rules, you lose your internet access.
19:44:21 Michael_Feldstein: Great work, guys.
19:44:26 JenW: excellent night buys
19:44:33 Lee_Baber: Hear hear
19:44:34 John_Blake: Cheryl, if they get caught
19:44:34 johnm: I would guess the house passed the bill because few representatives had any clue of what was at stake.
19:44:47 JenW: NO -- don't make me choose
19:44:54 sharon_p: tough choice!
19:44:56 barbara_in_ohio: read the legislation, folks... you will be amazed
19:45:01 johnm: I think it is important for the community to use the bloggosphere to get letter to key Sentators
19:45:01 Michael_Feldstein: Exactly, John
19:45:04 sharon_p: will both be recorded?
19:45:10 johnm: they have no idea what is at stake
19:45:11 dave-on-air: yes they will
19:45:12 John_Blake: oh man...dual skypes
19:45:14 John_Blake: cool
19:45:15 cheryloakes: Okay, Barb, you have made me want to read this myself. Thanks,
19:45:19 johnm: but if a blogg movement were to take it on.
19:45:22 johnm: that would be NEWS
19:45:25 JasonR(intern): EdTechTalk DOPA skypecast... https://skypecasts.skype.com/skypecasts/skypecast/detailed.html?id_talk=...
19:45:26 Michael_Feldstein: Senators only listen to their own constituents
19:45:33 johnm: not true
19:45:44 Michael_Feldstein: Important to contact your *own* Senator
19:45:47 JoseR: Which is which?
19:45:51 John_Blake: dang which on to pick...decissions decissions
19:45:52 cheryloakes: I've written to my senators, but I think it will require more than one letter,email.
19:45:58 John_Blake: phew recording
19:46:01 Stephen_Downes: I've never liked small groups
19:46:02 johnm: True, but staffers really pull the strings
19:46:11 johnm: so, if there were a blogg movement on this issue,
19:46:13 FrancesL: me either stephen
19:46:18 johnm: they would listen
19:46:21 John_Blake: oh man break out groups
19:46:24 barbara_in_ohio: -ish
19:46:26 John_Blake: awesome
19:46:32 cheryloakes: Have to head out. Will look for the recordings. Cheryl bye all
19:46:33 johnm: look how MySpace effected the immigration issue in CA and AZ
19:46:55 Graham: I have to go too - goodnight everyone
19:47:05 barbara_in_ohio: good night graham
19:47:08 DS: Cya Graham
19:47:13 [Room1] JenW: do we have a skype Address yet??
19:47:30 Michael_Feldstein: I have an answer to that.
19:47:40 Michael_Feldstein: You won't like it.
19:47:46 [Room1] barbara_in_ohio: I'm lost...which room is this?
19:48:09 [Room1] jonathan_seal: you mean tell me.
19:48:35 dave-on-air: if you wanna chat.
19:48:37 dave-on-air: SPEAK UP
19:48:41 dave-on-air: i'll find you
19:48:48 [Room1] JasonR(intern): DOPA text... http://edtechtalk.com/node/174
19:49:17 [Room1] JasonR(intern): DOPA... Deleting Our Personal Access
19:49:23 [Room1] John_Blake: I lost the skype to DOPA
19:49:35 Lee_Baber: I agree
19:50:01 [Room1] jonathan_seal: excellent point
19:50:04 [Room1] JasonR(intern): Anyone here use MySpace?
19:50:07 [Room1] John_Blake: thatnk
19:50:09 [Room1] JenW: yes
19:50:23 [Room1] JenW: I check my students ALL the time
19:50:32 [Room1] JasonR(intern): And won't it just drive their networking underground?
19:50:38 [Room1] JenW: keep up with their goings ons
19:51:04 [Room1] DBragg: I have checked students on myspace and they are shocked that I can see what they have written
19:51:06 [Room1] jonathan_seal: I agree we need to educate how to keep students safe.
19:51:22 [Room1] carlaarena: so, jeff, if they need parental supervision, are they going to do that with all kinds of communication, including cell phones?
19:51:30 [Room1] jonathan_seal: Shouldn't we try and teach this to the congressmen?
19:51:42 [Room1] carlaarena: i think we need to teach them
19:51:43 [Room1] DBragg: I have stopped lessons on a totally different subject to address blog/online safety
19:52:06 [Room1] JasonR(intern): Do you allow them to add you as friends in MySpace?
19:52:12 johnm: Has this issue been taken up by national assocations of Colleges and Univesities which DO have lawyers and lobbiests who can take on these issues
19:52:21 [Room1] barbara-in-ohio: (sorry: is the chatroom for the DOPA conversation?)
19:52:24 [Room1] carlaarena: in brazil, orkut is VERY popular
19:52:55 [Room1] carlaarena: that's what i try to do too! I'm in Orkut with my students
19:53:03 [Room1] JasonR(intern): Is there any problems with orkut in Brazil. Any sensational news stories surrounding it?
19:53:06 [Room1] carlaarena: parents here don't even know what blogging is...
19:53:49 [Room1] carlaarena: yes, Jason. But i think in the US it's a bigger issue.
19:54:48 [Room1] carlaarena: in my case, in brazil, I really want to teach students to use those tools in a healthy, positive way
19:55:22 [Room1] DBragg: I wrote my senators and contacted the NEA and asked what they were doing for me about it - didn't get a reply from any of them
19:55:30 [Room1] JenW: write them again
19:55:57 Michael_Feldstein: We neet to keep the heat on.
19:56:03 dave-on-air: oh yes
19:56:16 [Room1] DBragg: Oh, I will
19:56:23 [Room1] carlaarena: jeff, I'll get my teens' view to share with you!
19:56:34 [Room1] barbara-in-ohio: Folks: there is so much education about thses tools that have to happen just to gtet people up to steam... just explaining how we arecommunicatiing right now would impossible for some folks to understand
19:56:46 [Room1] carlaarena: they are really into IM, Orkut...
19:56:57 Michael_Feldstein: Make it a union issue.
19:57:02 [Room1] JasonR(intern): Afraid I have to check out. Thanks.
19:57:25 [Room1] John_Blake: Technology is wonderful, tried to launch Skype and man, what a mistake
19:57:52 SusanEttenheim: http://bumpontheblog.etowns.net/?p=73
19:57:56 SusanEttenheim: have you all seen this?
19:57:59 [Room1] DBragg: That education needs to be there for so many people (parent, teachers, administrators, politicians, etc.)
19:58:01 SusanEttenheim: I thought it was terrific
19:58:38 dave-on-air: we have one :)
19:58:40 [Room1] DBragg: Let's protect our kids for learning something...
19:58:46 SusanEttenheim: yes I love it!
19:59:25 [Room1] johnm: Edtech talk would serve the community well by drafting a letter that people could SEND via e-mail to Sentators to vote NO on this issue
19:59:29 [Room1] johnm: no one has a clue
19:59:41 [Room1] johnm: as to what is at stake
19:59:49 [Room1] John_Blake: that is a good idea Johnm
19:59:50 Michael_Feldstein: MAY I?
19:59:59 Lee_Baber: :)
19:59:59 [Room1] johnm: put it on a wiki
20:00:01 [Room1] johnm: draft it
20:00:05 [Room1] johnm: tonight!!!
20:00:14 [Room1] johnm: send it off to the key senators, via e-mail
20:00:15 [Room1] John_Blake: need to get on it now,
20:00:27 [Room1] johnm: follow up with a phone call and/or visit to their aids on the hill
20:00:39 [Room1] johnm: the Legislative Aids are KEY
20:00:57 [Room1] johnm: flood thier offices with letters from the bloggosphere
20:01:06 [Room1] johnm: The letter can and should be drafted SOON
20:01:13 [Room1] DBragg: I am planning to talk to students about it right away, but we don't come back into session until Sept.
20:01:36 [Room1] carlaarena: thanks, jeff!
20:01:37 [Room1] John_Blake: I sent my Congressman a Fax on DOPA and he still voted in favor of it
20:01:49 [Room1] johnm: talk to the aids
20:01:59 [Room1] carlaarena: it's interesting to know what you are thinking, because our reality is totally different
20:02:03 Lee_Baber: great work
20:02:05 jonathan_seal: What's the skype cast address again?
20:02:39 Jennifer_M: :)
20:03:10 jonathan_seal: thanks
20:03:54 John_Blake: Man, my laptop did not like launching SKYPE with everything running
20:04:26 John_Blake: I will have to launch SKYPE prior to any future ETTs
20:05:04 johnm: An academic paper is ONE approach but you need to have lawyers on this as well
20:05:21 dave-on-air: agreed
20:05:29 johnm: Dave made an interesting suggestion to have a law school take this on....
20:05:47 HaroldJarche: Michael Geist?
20:05:54 johnm: or as I sugggested before, have an edtechtalk show for lawyers interested in the issue
20:06:24 dave-on-air: that's a great idea john
20:06:30 HaroldJarche: ask Michael for advice? http://www.michaelgeist.ca/
20:06:40 DS: Harold, yes Stephen said he's been in touch with Michael
20:06:55 HaroldJarche: excellent - I was offline for a while
20:07:12 Stephen_Downes: http://www.downes.ca/blackboard_patent.htm
20:07:16 JoseR: bye got to go. Looking forward to listening to podcast.
20:07:24 JL: bye Jose
20:07:26 johnm: the blackboard issue is only the opening salvo to the open source community
20:07:26 DS: bye Jose
20:07:29 Stephen_Downes: I sent an email to Michael
20:07:48 John_Blake: is that Innovate? Enovate? dang I can not spelel
20:08:07 johnm: you will serve "the community" well by establishing an on-going conversation for lawyers become part of these discusssions.
20:09:34 Stephen_Downes: Innovate
20:09:53 John_Blake: thanks, I am on their mailing list,
20:10:26 johnm: This is not only about power.....
20:10:32 johnm: it is about making money!!
20:10:50 johnm: power is a way to facilite the means to have some make money faster than others.
20:11:33 johnm: this group has "power" just has to learn how to use it to its advantage.
20:12:07 Lee_Baber: I am afraid we will have to buy "packages" from those few who control the internet...they offer packages like satellite tv...only for internet...
20:12:10 Michael_Feldstein: Power = money, money=power
20:12:10 John_Blake: that is why Ruppert Murdock is so big in Internet blogging
20:12:28 John_Blake: $$$ ;)
20:13:31 johnm: What happened with Myspace and its influcence on the immigration protests
20:13:39 johnm: influence.
20:13:49 johnm: This social software has yet to realize its potential
20:13:50 dave-on-air: ?
20:13:55 dave-on-air: that's sounds interesting
20:13:56 johnm: IF it can translate chat into policy
20:14:00 John_Blake: DOPA has the conservative right behind it and money talks...I would bet that is does pass
20:14:04 JenW: Well, I saw it cause students to uprise against something they knew nothing about.
20:14:12 johnm: and influencing those in power to work with them.
20:14:16 JenW: MySpace rallied them -- but didn't educate them
20:14:18 JenW: IMHO
20:14:23 johnm: I know that
20:14:31 johnm: its the rallying that is the important piece
20:14:40 Michael_Feldstein: I'm not familair with the immgrant protest angle
20:14:46 JenW: I believe you need to be informed before you rally
20:14:50 JenW: again -- IMHO
20:15:21 johnm: That's not the point Jen, the point is the potential social software has in influencing the power structures.
20:15:34 JenW: yes, I agree with that
20:15:43 John_Blake: the news media is very much a fear monger about predeter online
20:15:47 John_Blake: Great point
20:15:48 johnm: tjat
20:15:55 JenW: great night
20:16:00 John_Blake: night Jen
20:16:06 johnm: that is because the mommybloggers have realized the influence they can have on policy
20:16:11 johnm: this group needs to see that
20:16:17 FrancesL: thanks verymuch everyone -- this has been great!
20:16:40 JenW: Don't you think though that everything -- even myspace becomes an area to breed fear rather than knowledge
20:16:53 johnm: if you don't understand myspace
20:16:54 JenW: if used improperly
20:16:54 johnm: yes
20:17:32 John_Blake: Thanks for a great show! You guys Rock
20:17:39 Stephen_Downes: Good show :)
20:17:44 Stephen_Downes: I have to run very soon
20:17:53 JenW: nice to be on the same website as you Stephen -- such a treat
20:17:59 JenW: or skypecast I guess
20:18:15 John_Blake: crash time?
20:18:18 Stephen_Downes: Thanks Jen :)
20:18:40 Lee_Baber: Thanks so much Stephen for discussing my questions as well...
20:18:45 DS: thanks Stephen, Michael and all for a great show
20:18:54 JenW: and very impressive to get the D2L gentleman too!!!
20:19:23 John_Blake: Night all :)
20:19:27 Lee_Baber: Thanks Michael for everything
20:19:37 Stephen_Downes: I agree, Michael
20:19:39 Lee_Baber: Jeff and Dave...great job.
20:19:48 FrancesL: thanks everyone -- much appreciated!
20:20:06 Stephen_Downes: Gotta run... bye everyone :)
20:20:15 JL: Please ask for mic if anyone would like to join in
20:20:39 dave-on-air: bye stephen
20:22:58 HaroldJarche: Hi Joyce - they were looking for a librarian earlier
20:23:14 JL: join the skypecast
20:23:43 joycevalenza: we won!
20:23:51 dave-on-air: grat
20:23:53 dave-on-air: great
20:26:22 JenW: “He who receives ideas from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine receives light without darkening me”
20:26:32 JenW: Thomas Jefferson
20:29:04 johnm: This is great conversation, but I do think we would all benefit from the opinions of one or more patent lawyers who know patent law
20:29:36 Michael_Feldstein: Absolutely
20:29:48 HaroldJarche: All the US patent Office is Google to search for prior art in this case
20:30:24 rentre: See you tomorrow Dave. :D
20:30:30 HaroldJarche: Lawrence Lessig?
20:30:42 Michael_Feldstein: EFF
20:31:19 HaroldJarche: EFF would be good start
20:31:24 joycevalenza: agree!
20:31:28 Michael_Feldstein: BErkman Center at Harvard
20:31:42 HaroldJarche: http://www.eff.org/
20:31:46 Michael_Feldstein: Al Essa has contacted EFF
20:31:49 Lee_Baber: Great!
20:32:05 joycevalenza: i am late--did we discuss university ownership of faculty-developed content?
20:32:22 gomer: Some of the universities that developed this technology have highly-skilled IP lawyers. The researchers who developed these systems should push their university legal staff to get on-board.
20:32:34 Martin_Dougiamas: hi all
20:32:39 JL: Hello Martin
20:32:41 dave-on-air: hey martin
20:32:41 DS: Hi Martin
20:32:46 JL: Delighted you could join us
20:32:56 JL: We hoped if we just kept talking you'd show up :)
20:33:07 Lee_Baber: Hello Martin
20:33:27 Martin_Dougiamas: glad to be here
20:33:50 Lee_Baber: Hello Bob
20:34:09 Lee_Baber: Good Idea
20:34:15 elderbob: Hello all.
20:34:24 JenW: I would sign the letter he is talking about -- we are a forum now!! A recognized forum
20:34:51 Cathy_Evanoff: Got to run- see ya'll
20:34:59 Lee_Baber: Yes, draft it so it is consistantly described to legislators
20:35:04 joycevalenza: i love this idea. it can be posted as well on all of our blogs
20:35:09 Lee_Baber: yes
20:35:43 joycevalenza: The word has to get out, bigtime
20:36:43 elderbob: Its a little hard to beleive that any of this happens on the part of ignorance of the people who write the laws.
20:36:57 elderbob: Even if they are ignorannnt, their staffs are not.
20:37:08 johnm: that is true, but maybe not.
20:37:16 elderbob: Indeed, if ignorance is present, it is in the part of thier constituents.
20:37:23 johnm: What impact have the "mommybolggers" had on this legislation
20:37:32 JenW: i don't think their staffs are ignorant but I think their staffs aren't informed.
20:37:36 Michael_Feldstein: NoEduPatents.org
20:37:37 johnm: what number of them have actually helped draft the legislation
20:38:00 joycevalenza: our work with educational blogging is less mainstream than we would think
20:38:03 JenW: what was the link he gave please
20:38:06 dave-on-air: http://noedupatents.org/
20:38:08 JenW: thank you
20:39:27 JenW: what a night -- the D2L guy, Stephen D, Michael F., Martin D.........wow
20:39:35 JenW: and all of us
20:39:38 Lee_Baber: Yes Jen, I agree
20:39:51 JenW: where do I begin to blog about this????? :)
20:40:03 Lee_Baber: Everywhere
20:40:09 Lee_Baber: you go
20:41:00 JenW: ??? Can we quote the BB letter on our blog???? or would you rather we not???
20:41:03 johnm: good night all......thanks Dave and Jeff for a GREAT show!
20:41:12 Lee_Baber: Night John
20:41:35 HaroldJarche: ah yes, CORBA ;-)
20:42:42 elderbob: Virtually anyone can file a patent for anything....it is when someone goes to court to say that another had violated a patent, that the excitement should begin.
20:43:08 elderbob: And a patent can only exist until a court says it cant.
20:43:31 elderbob: SO to some extent these appear to be test cases.
20:44:11 elderbob: The very reason that this case in the states was filed in the Eastern Court of Texas is because that set of courts is fairly well koown as the Patent Pirates courts.
20:45:33 bruno: very interesting, elderbob
20:45:48 HaroldJarche: The Harvard Mouse, anyone?
20:45:51 Michael_Feldstein: Business process patents, which are also evil
20:46:41 JenW: what was the name of the man from D2L??
20:46:44 JenW: please
20:47:01 Michael_Feldstein: Me too
20:47:03 HaroldJarche: John MacLeod?
20:47:06 JenW: Thank you
20:47:30 Michael_Feldstein: History of Virtual Learnign Environments
20:47:36 Lee_Baber: Thanks Martin!
20:47:55 Michael_Feldstein: Thank you, Martin.
20:48:19 Lee_Baber: hmmmm
20:48:25 Lee_Baber: interesting ??
20:48:35 Lee_Baber: If we had only known
20:48:51 JenW: can we post that about MS and Moodle?
20:49:03 elderbob: What about Moodle and Google....
20:49:30 JenW: LOL -- okay it is blogged
20:49:33 elderbob: Will Googles efforts to provide space for open source help moodle.
20:50:13 Lee_Baber: THank you so much .. this has been very informative
20:50:38 HaroldJarche: TTFN
20:50:42 JenW: EXCELLENT NIGHT
20:50:50 joycevalenza: bye all!
20:50:50 Michael_Feldstein: Thanks, guys
20:51:31 Jennifer_M: Great show!
20:51:42 Michael_Feldstein: Party on, dudes
20:51:59 DS: wonderful discussion, thanks all
20:52:07 bruno: great show, thanks
20:52:23 elderbob: Great for everyone's participation.
20:52:26 Michael_Feldstein: bye all
20:52:31 Lee_Baber: Thanksss
20:52:32 JenW: Great night again
20:53:51 Lee_Baber: Night All
20:54:11 Lee_Baber: By Michael!
21:07:33 anonymous: Is discussion over?
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