- Length: 54:42 minutes (12.52 MB)
- Format: MP3 Mono 44kHz 32Kbps (CBR)
If you were itching to include gaming in your curriculum, what would you do? Susan and I, and others in the New York City Writing Project started by having a conversation with some pretty smart people earlier this month on Teachers Teaching Teachers. We met most of these educators in November 2009 at the National Writing Project's "Digital Is..." Conference, which was an invitational one-day conference supported by the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation's Digital Media and Learning Initiative .
On this podcast we are joined by these amazing folks:
- Barry Joseph and Rafi Santo from Global Kids.
- Jonathan Richter and Peggy Marconi who are working together at the Oregon Writing Project at the University of Oregon.
- New York City Public School teachers, Al Doyle, David Marini, and Shantanu Saha
Let's start by quoting Global Kids on Games-based Learning|:
Since 2002, Global Kids has been a leader in the use of online games to promote global awareness, engaged citizenship, and 21st Century Learning Skills. Through Playing 4 Keeps, Global Kids trains urban youth to think critically about digital games and design games about important social issues. Here is an article that just came out about their most recent program for individual educators: American Library Association on Global Kid’s games-based trainings .
Here's more about Barry Joseph and Rafi Santo:
- Barry Joseph, Global Kids, Inc., Director of the Online Leadership Program, holds a BA from Northwestern University and an MA in American Studies from New York University. Barry came to Global Kids in 2000 through the New Voices Fellowship of the Academy for Educational Development, funded by the Ford Foundation. He has developed innovative programs in the areas of youth-led online dialogues, video games as a form of youth media, the application of social networks for social good and the educational potential of virtual worlds, combining youth development practices with the development of high profile digital media projects that develop 21st Century Skills. He has also worked with GK’s development program to secure funding from a number of foundation’s and corporations. Barry served on the steering committee of the MacArthur Foundation’s Digital Media and Learning initiative and his writing appeared in the Foundation’s Ecology of Games volume in 2007. He has spoken at numerous conferences and published articles in a wide variety of publications.
- Since joining Global Kids, Rafi Santo has been developing and implementing educational technology projects as varied as youth advisories on digital media, online youth dialogues, social media civic engagement programs and youth leadership development and peer education in virtual worlds. He has collaborated on projects with organizations including The Newshour with Jim Lehrer, UNICEF, the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and has worked with many of the MacArthur Foundation’s Digital Media and Learning grantees to strengthen their initiatives through youth voices and perspectives. He has ten years of experience in youth development and education. Prior to joining Global Kids, Rafi did field work in international development in India, helping to build bridges between Hindu and Muslim communities in conflict. He graduated with a BA in Integral Studies from New York University.
Next check out this is brief overview of a gaming project that Jonathan Richter and Peggy Marconi are working on:
The Simulations Gaming Development Initiative (SGDI) program at Lane Community College aims to integrate programming and gaming industry curricula into a distributed 3D virtual and web-enhanced platform in order to enhance access and innovation for people across the country. The project has been designed to start locally and scale up as the capacity for a geodistributed Community of Practice emerges to include distance students from participating high schools and community colleges. An introduction to Second Life course is being piloted Fall 2009, with concurrent design of a gaming and simulation programming course to be implemented Spring 2010. The SGDI project features a focus on building capacity to attract non-typical students into the computer sciences - particularly females - by developing support structures for learning such content in accessible and collaborative ways.Center for Advanced Technology in Education.
Here's more about Jonathon Richter and Peggy Marconi:
- Jonathon Richter, Ed.D is Director of The Center for Learning in Virtual Environments at The University of Oregon where he currently is co-Principal Investigator on two National Science Foundation grants – one to integrate computer science and game development into virtual environments at Lane Community College in Oregon and the other investigating the way globally distributed teams use virtual worlds to collaborate and innovate. He is the co-founder and current chair of the American Educational Research Association’s special interest group on virtual worlds named the Applied Research in Virtual Environments for Learning (ARVEL) and is leading the MERLOT Taskforce on Virtual Worlds.
- Peggy Marconi is the Associate Director Oregon Writing Project at the University of Oregon, Center for Advanced Technology in Education . Peggy is good at making curriculum connections for classroom application for gamimg. And she iscurrently working with colleagues to develop Oregon Writing Project Institutes in Second Life.
Finally, allow us to introduce you to two New York City Public School teachers, Al Doyle and Shantanu Saha:
- Al Doyle | Sports for the Mind domain teacher Al Doyle, a native of Brooklyn, has interests ranging from art and animation to set design, digital imaging and most recently, game design. He was the producer and lead animator for the Salvadori Foundation’s Art of Construction, a web site designed to teach basic architecture and engineering to middle school students. For more than twenty years, he has taught computer graphics and multimedia at leading independent New York City K-12 schools. Al developed a popular course for adults, Learning Photoshop Through Art, at the Guggenheim Museum. Al received a Jerome Foundation Fellowship to create a portfolio of prints at Bob Blackburn’s Printmaking Workshop which is now in the Library of Congress collection. Al studied stage design at the Polakov Studio in the West Village and was resident designer at HB Studio for several years. In addition, he designed over 100 educational theater productions and over 25 professional designs for ballet, dance, drama, musical theater and opera in off-Broadway and regional theater. As Director of Internet Training at the National Teacher Training Institute for New York’s Channel Thirteen / WNET, Al traveled extensively in a “train-the-trainers” model of technology integration for K-12 teachers. Currently, in addition to his role at Quest, Al teaches for the graduate division of Touro College’s Masters Degree Program in Instructional Technology
- Shantanu Saha is a technology teacher at Baccalaureate School for Global Education. On his Google profile, Shantanu lists his Superpower as: “I can heal electronics by touch.” His Interests are “games, games, and more games.”
- David Marini and Paul Allison are colleagues at the East-West School of International Studies in Flushing, Queens. David mainly teaches Art, and he is a big gamer.
Gamer or not, you'll be inspired by this episode of Teachers Teaching Teachers. Let us know how you are using games in your classroom!
Image: “Darth Vader getting schooled about Japan’s keitai culture ,” Uploaded on August 13, 2005  by chriskk 
Click Read more to see a transcript of a chat that was happening during the webcast.
20:48:34 Paul Allison: http://paulallison.tumblr.com/post/319069041/we-are-getting-schooled-on-... 
20:48:45 Paul Allison: Hello!
20:48:49 Paul Allison: Full house tonight.
20:50:41 SusanEttenheim: hi!
20:50:53 SusanEttenheim: too cold for everyone to come out...
20:56:01 SusanEttenheim: hi jenna welcome!
20:56:06 JennaMcWillams: hey!
20:56:12 JennaMcWillams: am i early?
20:57:01 SusanEttenheim: just getting ready
21:00:28 Paul Allison: Hi. We'll start in a moment.
21:00:33 Paul Allison: http://paulallison.tumblr.com/post/319069041/we-are-getting-schooled-on-... 
21:00:49 RafiSanto: Hi Folks!
21:00:54 Paul Allison: Hi Martha
21:00:57 JennaMcWillams: hi Rafi!
21:01:06 Paul Allison: Martha is a student of mine at East-West
21:01:11 Martha C: Hey Mr. Allison
21:01:14 Barry: testing testing
21:01:14 RafiSanto: yay jenna's here.
21:01:20 Barry: Hi Jenna
21:01:25 JennaMcWillams: hi Barry!
21:02:45 JennaMcWillams: o, sound suddenly!
21:02:56 JennaMcWillams: i think rafi's speaking from inside a jet.
21:02:58 Carl (aka weemooseus): Good evening everyone.
21:03:26 Barry: Rafi is a Jet
21:03:37 JennaMcWillams: he IS?
21:03:43 RafiSanto: lol, my computer's hard drive is making noise!
21:03:45 JennaMcWillams: i wanna see him snap and dance
21:03:56 JennaMcWillams: THAT scared him away.
21:04:01 JennaMcWillams: you are!
21:04:03 PaulOh: you are being heard
21:04:09 JennaMcWillams: w00t.
21:04:13 Barry: Thank you.
21:04:46 SusanEttenheim: hi everyone - thanks for joining us!
21:05:01 SusanEttenheim: hi greg welcome!
21:05:09 SusanEttenheim: please introduce yourself!
21:05:14 SusanEttenheim: everyone....
21:05:23 SusanEttenheim: hi - I teach high school in NYC
21:05:54 PaulOh: hi - i work for the national writing project and am based in berkeley, CA
21:05:57 JennaMcWillams: I'm jenna--I'm a ph.d. student at Indiana University
21:06:27 SusanEttenheim: hi jackie welcome! please introduce yourself!
21:06:30 firstname.lastname@example.org: I teach writing and math to students in 3rd,4th, and 5th grade in Pennsylvania
21:06:42 jackiegerstein: Hi Susan
21:06:43 JennaMcWillams: FRED!
21:06:44 Carl (aka weemooseus): Hi, I am a middle school teacher trapped, (willingly), in a computer lab.
21:06:52 mjgormans: hi I am Mike & teach technology integration in Fort Wayne IN
21:06:58 Fred Haas: Jenna! Hello!
21:06:58 Barry: Do we need a hash tag for this talk so the backchannel has a backchannel?
21:07:21 Fred Haas: @Jenna - Hope you had great holidays
21:07:24 Barry: Hi Carl. Hi Mike.
21:07:26 SusanEttenheim: haha I think this is the back channel
21:07:38 SusanEttenheim: al - looking for you on skype - are you on?
21:07:41 Barry: Hi Fleep!
21:07:43 SusanEttenheim: hi fleep and collenk
21:07:48 Fleep: Heya! Thanks for the tweet!
21:07:51 SusanEttenheim: please introduce yourselves!
21:07:51 colleenk: Hi everyone!
21:08:08 jackiegerstein: Hey Fleep - nice work on the 1st Question yesterday.
21:08:24 Fleep: laugh! Thanks! I was just happy to not lose by a mile. :)
21:08:38 jackiegerstein: :D
21:09:05 Al Doyle: Hi all, ny name is Al Doyle and I teach game design... I need help getting in the live audio...
21:09:17 SusanEttenheim: al- turn on your skype!
21:09:17 Fleep: (Assume I should be listening to EdTechTalk A?)
21:09:24 SusanEttenheim: yes fleep
21:09:45 Carl (aka weemooseus): Through skype?
21:09:47 Martha C: Wow, the chat's busy this week. =]
21:09:50 SusanEttenheim: hi joe welcome!
21:10:23 SusanEttenheim: hi mrboyer welcome!
21:10:30 SusanEttenheim: please introduce yourself!
21:10:37 Fleep: great thanks.
21:10:50 mrboyer: 5th grade teacher, KS
21:11:07 Fleep: Yay Barry! People don't say that enough
21:11:37 Fleep: Yay again!
21:11:48 Fleep: Creation is powerful stuff.
21:12:31 SusanEttenheim: hi martha welcome!
21:12:39 SusanEttenheim: al what's happening with your skype?
21:12:45 Martha C: hi. =]
21:12:46 Barry: How do we sound?
21:12:52 JennaMcWillams: SMART.
21:13:14 Barry: lol. I walked into that one.
21:13:21 Fleep: :)
21:13:33 SusanEttenheim: :)
21:13:48 email@example.com: As a gamer who cut his teeth on face-to-face games, it's interesting to listen to a conversation about games where everyone assumes we're talking about electronic games only.
21:13:59 Al Doyle: My skype is on... my skype name is sports_mind
21:14:53 JennaMcWillams: @shantanu--one of the speakers mentioned growing up on D&D.
21:14:59 Fleep: I think it depends on the context or what your goals are
21:15:02 firstname.lastname@example.org: that's me
21:15:15 JennaMcWillams: *waves at @adamaig*
21:15:19 SusanEttenheim: hi adamaig welcome
21:15:41 Fleep: fantasy can play an important role in helping imagine situations outside your "normal" or every day experience
21:16:20 JennaMcWillams: i think it would be interesting to have the speakers talk about electronic vs. f2f games.
21:17:17 JennaMcWillams: omg game design as a core subject. brb dying from jealousy
21:17:21 Fleep: hehe
21:17:23 Barry: Yeah Gamestar!
21:17:38 Barry: No, not a core subject - the core pedagogy!
21:17:57 Barry: Every subject is taught through a game design and system framework
21:18:01 Fleep: Was that "gamestore mechanic"?
21:18:14 Fleep: Didn't quite catch what he said
21:18:22 JennaMcWillams: @fleep, gamestar mechanic
21:18:27 Fleep: Thanks!
21:18:30 Barry: http://GamestarMechanic.com 
21:18:39 JennaMcWillams: can Al talk about what the admins had to do to get this curriculum accepted?
21:18:50 Martha C: that sounds so cool!
21:19:34 Carl (aka weemooseus): I would worry that game development in school based on war games might leave a gender out?
21:19:50 JennaMcWillams: is it a war game?
21:20:13 Barry: Rules, space, goal, core mechanics, challenge and components. And choice.
21:20:16 Ilka: That could be, Carl.
21:20:30 Barry: No, it's a game about a game world - the games are broken and you have to fix them.
21:20:38 Carl (aka weemooseus): Just from what I am hearing, its a war game development machine
21:20:53 Barry: But to fix them you have to learn game design by creating your own.
21:21:05 jackiegerstein: Rules of Play http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&tid=9802 
21:21:34 JennaMcWillams: whoa, rabbit hole
21:21:58 adamaig: carl, having played GSM it really wouldn't be characterized that way. The earlier stages were like pacman in someways.
21:22:14 Barry: You can watch examples on YouTube
21:22:26 Carl (aka weemooseus): Ok, will check it out..
21:22:29 JennaMcWillams: ooo good question
21:23:24 Fleep: (I knew I heard Jon hehe)
21:24:14 JennaMcWillams: question: does education through games need to have a design component, or can guided participation in the games suffice?
21:25:00 email@example.com: Those would be two different strategies for using games in education.
21:25:19 JennaMcWillams: it seems like Q2L uses both?
21:26:12 Barry: Jenna, I think that is correct. I think the key is it is always participatory.
21:26:13 adamaig: I think what the speakers just spoke about is really important in terms of providing students with agency in their lives & education.
21:26:20 firstname.lastname@example.org: Yes. From the description it seems as if they hook kids in by having them play games, then lets them learn how to design them.
21:26:46 JennaMcWillams: @rafi, but writing crosses multiple communities, disciplines, and vocations in a really easy to understand way. Do you think games have the same universal applications?
21:27:08 JennaMcWillams: who's that speaking now?
21:27:24 PaulOh: peggy marconi
21:27:31 PaulOh: is speaking now
21:27:33 Barry: Shantanu - the key here is that the activity in the game and the educational content IS the same.
21:27:48 Barry: But I can understand without hearing an example it can be hard to grok - they are SO innovative.
21:27:49 PaulOh: she's from the University of Oregon
21:27:49 JennaMcWillams: hahaha technical difficulties
21:28:27 Martha C: I love writing [i]and[/i] gaming[i] [/i]:D
21:28:31 email@example.com: @Barry. I think I do understand.
21:28:44 JennaMcWillams: martha, are you a student?
21:28:58 Barry: @shantanu - I didn't mean you in specific, but all in general, including me!
21:29:02 Martha C: Yes. I'm one of Mr. Allison's students
21:29:09 SusanEttenheim: hi potsticker welcome!
21:29:14 JennaMcWillams: oooo, what grade?
21:29:21 Martha C: 11th
21:29:28 firstname.lastname@example.org: But most kids would not start out wanting to develop games, so I was describing the motivational tool, at least at the beginning
21:29:33 JennaMcWillams: do any of your teachers use games in class?
21:29:45 Barry: Welcome Martha. Please let us know if you have any questions for us speakers.
21:30:03 Martha C: im just listening, commenting. lol
21:30:04 Carl (aka weemooseus): A lot of my students will create games as part of my Scratch unit.
21:30:16 Martha C: if i have questions, i'll ask. ;]
21:30:16 email@example.com: I have taught units around computer games in the past, not this year though.
21:30:47 SusanEttenheim: hi echoln welcome!
21:31:11 echoln: This is my first time here.
21:31:21 Fleep: Welcome echoln!
21:31:30 SusanEttenheim: welcome! please introduce yourself
21:31:41 Fleep: We're listening to the stream and chatting in here. :)
21:32:03 SusanEttenheim: hi fred welcome!
21:32:13 PaulOh: hi Fred!
21:32:26 JennaMcWillams: fred again!
21:32:47 Fred Haas: Hi all, again.
21:33:38 Fleep: wb Fred :)
21:34:53 JennaMcWillams: haha that's awesome
21:34:57 Fleep: And I get the iron!
21:34:59 Fleep: ;)
21:35:33 JennaMcWillams: any speaker want to tackle the assessment bugbear w/respect to games?
21:35:35 Ilka: And so many kids need to learn to negotiate things like how to come to concensus
21:37:06 Fred Haas: @Jenna - I like Gee's notion about the game being the assessment
21:37:19 JennaMcWillams: but then can we just offer the game up as a report card?
21:38:03 firstname.lastname@example.org: @Jenna - The game IS the assessment.
21:38:08 Fred Haas: Not necessarily. Part of what i recall was that the level of difficulty could potentially correspond with the mark achieved.
21:38:15 adamaig: I think some of this discussion is ignoring answering why something is meaningful to learn. Not to pick on it, but to illustrate, Ilka, the important thing would be to have the game situate the students in a narrative where they _need_ consensus in order to succeed, not to simply have them learn how to come to consensus.
21:38:38 email@example.com: If you teach by having kids play existing games, their progress through the game is part of the assessment.
21:38:40 Barry: Right - the core mechanic is the thing learned, not the skin around the activity
21:38:51 Ilka: what skills are needed to design the game...those would be the items that are graded
21:39:00 adamaig: By structing the education that way, then they understand, in a personalized way, why consensus is useful.
21:39:01 Barry: As James Paul Gee says, when someone finishes Halo you don't ask them to take a test - finishing it IS the test
21:39:15 JennaMcWillams: but take, for example, the reading skills that are integrated into the game. How do we translate that into the realities of typical classrooms (high stakes testing, etc.), and how can we use games to prove to stakeholders that learning across curricula has happened?
21:39:18 firstname.lastname@example.org: If you teach by having kids design the game, the quality of the design becomes the assessment. In this case, the kids can assess themselves and one another by testing out the games
21:39:35 JennaMcWillams: er
21:39:57 SusanEttenheim: hi carol welcome!
21:40:05 SusanEttenheim: I remember that game!!
21:40:09 carolteach4: Hi, Susan!
21:40:14 potsticker: How does it end?
21:40:16 SusanEttenheim: and Operation Neptune - who remembers that?
21:40:54 Ilka: in order to come to consensus, effective persuasive communication and information to back up their ideas. I think there would be learning even if they don't succeed in every aspect. In fact, if the game takes the students in a completely different direction, it could be very valuable. There is learning in the process, and in the failure.
21:41:36 Barry: Global Kids next professional development series on games & education for educators will be held on Thur, Feb 11th. For more information please email email@example.com 
21:41:42 Fred Haas: Jenna - proving what has been learned is definitely a challenge in the sense that the game is a complex environment with potentially an array of overlapping learning objectives and required skills. So parsing the those out individually is no doubt a real challenge.
21:42:07 SusanEttenheim: hi matthew welcome!
21:42:39 adamaig: No argument with that. I was trying to make the point that helping learners to develop a why ("*I* need to solve this because...") for some content is important, and feels overlooked frequently.
21:42:55 Ilka: true...
21:42:57 Fleep: Spore was super disappointing. :(
21:43:13 adamaig: yeah. and fun for about 4 hours :-(
21:43:18 Barry: I enjoy Spore, and liked designing things in it with my son when he was 2
21:43:18 JennaMcWillams: can you use games to teach if you're not a gamer yourself?
21:43:33 Barry: Ohm, yes! We have a paper on that.
21:43:41 Barry: Let me see if I can paste the url
21:44:46 Fleep: Well, ok, I should clarify, Spore was disappointing for ME. :)
21:45:12 Barry: How can I post a url here?
21:45:48 Fleep: http://fleeptuque.com 
21:45:53 Fleep: I just typed it in
21:45:58 Fleep: seemed to work
21:46:32 SusanEttenheim: welcome back potsticker
21:46:37 JennaMcWillams: nice site, fleep.
21:46:50 adamaig: I think Squire & Jenkins made a game around the American Revolution using NWN.
21:46:51 Fleep: he hehe thanks, didn't mean to spam, was just testing linking. :)
21:47:04 Fleep: I loved the modularity of NWN
21:47:37 Fleep: I wish more commercial games offered that kind of level building capability
21:47:58 adamaig: Designing tools for end users is a huge task :-)
21:48:01 Fleep: http://rezed.org 
21:48:40 matthew valia: I think educational games today are great for sandbox / after school programs. They need a lot more work to mesh engaging gameplay with content to be widely accepted in the day to day curriculum
21:48:45 Barry: olp.globalkids.org
21:48:50 Fleep: That's true adamaig but I'd argue that good modding can really extend the life and commercial viability of a game
21:49:03 Barry: Thanks Fleep but I have a long one I need to paste.
21:49:25 JennaMcWillams: gosh
21:49:28 firstname.lastname@example.org: part of the problem is fitting the learning that kids do in games into the standardized testing box
21:49:36 adamaig: When you have to be concerned about a teacher under high-stakes testing constraints, you need to be certain about your tools helping them meet annual criteria. Modding is great, but the stakes are really high for educators.
21:49:38 JennaMcWillams: note to self: do NOT click the silly icons above the text box.
21:49:44 JennaMcWillams: it will erase entire conversations.
21:49:50 Barry: http://tinyurl.com/reportongamingbynongamers 
21:49:54 Al Doyle Q2L: Quest to Learn web site: www.q2l.org 
21:49:56 Barry: that might work. thank you tinyurl
21:50:02 Fleep: I just did that too Jenna :)
21:50:09 JennaMcWillams: yay, thanks barry!
21:50:13 Fleep: Thanks Barry!
21:50:22 JennaMcWillams: i was all, I CAN FIGURE THIS OUT FOR BARRY! *CLICKoops*
21:50:34 Martha C: omg, those things
21:50:47 Martha C: those laptops are evil. the keys are too small. XD
21:51:12 matthew valia: lan parties in school
21:51:31 Barry: It is a report on Global Kids work supporting youth librarians in NYC and community center folks in Boston to teach game design, even though they weren't gamers. You can watch videos of the youth at the end at http://playing4keeps.org 
21:51:36 adamaig: In response to the question just asked, Quest Atlantis has done that for years.
21:51:43 Al Doyle Q2L: Ques to Learn http://www.q2l.org 
21:52:14 JennaMcWillams: can we stretch the concept of non-gaming teachers working with games to the concept of, say, non-blogging teachers working with blogs? Or are we talking about entirely different animals?
21:52:24 Ilka: Thanks for the links. :)
21:52:25 Barry: A lot on Quest TO LEARN at http://www.RezEd.org  - podcasts, best practice reports, and discussions
21:52:35 Barry: Oops - I meant Quest Atlantis
21:52:39 Barry: Too many quests....
21:52:45 adamaig: yeah :-)
21:52:49 email@example.com: You need to have some experience in something to teach it, no?
21:53:05 firstname.lastname@example.org: Would you expect someone who doesn't play chess to teach it?
21:53:13 JennaMcWillams: well but this link barry posted about non-designing teachers learning how to teach game design...
21:53:24 Barry: I don't know. I think digital media means you no longer have to be an expert in something to teach it - now you are facilitating knowledge and skill acquisition, which is different
21:53:25 matthew valia: Do you think there would be more resistance to games from teachers or admins?
21:53:40 email@example.com: Exactly. Would you expect someone who has never designed a building to teach architecture?
21:53:47 JennaMcWillams: i agree, barry
21:54:00 JennaMcWillams: we need to think across curricula in order to support a new model of participation
21:54:04 Barry: No longer the "sage on the stage" but the, um... anyone recall the second half. This is a game. Who will get the A?
21:54:10 adamaig: Being able to teach effectively in some cases can mean knowing how to support learners in "searching" the space. I don't think domain expertise is needed at all levels of learning support.
21:54:21 SusanEttenheim: guide on the side
21:54:26 Fred Haas: Barry - "guide on the side"
21:54:28 JennaMcWillams: o shoot
21:54:28 Barry: Yes! You win!
21:54:30 SusanEttenheim: what do I win?
21:54:30 potsticker: dope on the ropes
21:54:33 JennaMcWillams: *pouts*
21:54:35 Ilka: Maybe the non-gaming teacher will like what they see and start becoming a gamer. It could start in an activity period or after-school then get added into the regular curriculum
21:54:50 mdprier: Is the discussion of games only for digital games, or all sorts of games in general?
21:54:53 JennaMcWillams: ok so but you could teach architecture without having designed a building if you can bring in the appropriate expertise
21:54:54 SusanEttenheim: haha potsticker
21:55:14 Fleep: laugh that's funnyt
21:55:14 firstname.lastname@example.org: The guide on the side is okay for teaching the beginnings of something, but you do need some sage on the stage in order to get kids to the higher levels
21:55:17 SusanEttenheim: I agree - bringing in the expertise is crucial
21:55:17 JennaMcWillams: and in fact with games you kind of have to
21:55:19 Fleep: Have to turn the homework off!
21:55:21 Barry: Dealing with learning in a digital age means, for the next decade, that youth will often know and hold different interests from their educators.
21:55:26 Barry: Shantanu - I agree.
21:55:28 JennaMcWillams: because you can't be an expert in everything required to play a game
21:55:41 Fred Haas: If you are not a gamer but interested, perhaps the role of teacher becomes a kind of lead researcher that helps the students find as many key resources that are needed to explore
21:55:42 JennaMcWillams: or to design a game or whatever
21:55:43 Fleep: But again, THOSE are some of the life skills that can be associated with "gaming and learning" that AREN'T built into the game
21:55:44 matthew valia: YES. kids were playing fantastic contraption till like 1AM when we introduced it to them
21:55:49 Fleep: learning to manage your time
21:55:52 Ilka: Love that the kids wanted to stay up to work...
21:55:56 email@example.com: Games as homework!
21:56:09 Fleep: (I love that fantastic contraption game)
21:56:21 matthew valia: on the iphone too!
21:56:49 PaulOh: would someone mind reposting barry's link to the paper about non-gaming educators teaching games?
21:57:06 Fleep: http://tinyurl.com/reportongamingbynongamers 
21:57:14 PaulOh: thanks, fleep!
21:57:38 Barry: Email me at firstname.lastname@example.org  to request a copy. The url is just the press release. Put "please send copy of P4K evaluation" in the title and I will send it over
21:58:40 JennaMcWillams: oops, barry, i just emailed you without that in the subject because i got all excited and jumped the gun.
21:59:57 JennaMcWillams: the g word: Google?
22:00:25 SusanEttenheim: Disrupting Class - GREAT book!
22:00:41 PaulOh: @barry thanks!
22:00:43 Fleep: Second that, good read
22:02:15 matthew valia: who are these people in power at the doe
22:02:53 adamaig: One of the things I miss from physics is the focus on "thought experiments". They in many ways are geeky games or play with the content. I don't feel like that practice has made it out to other fields in as playful a manner
22:04:00 carolteach4: Online conference about integration of digital tools in science teaching at CT Science Center in Hartford this Saturday, Jan.9 If you can‚Äôt attend in person, you can attend register to attend virtually from home, http://links.discoveryeducation.com/denscicon 
22:04:19 Ilka: Some schools...Many schools are still struggling to catch up.
22:04:32 potsticker: Being quick to learn made the difference.
22:05:55 JennaMcWillams: yay clapclapclap
22:06:00 JennaMcWillams: i'm inspired!
22:06:17 carolteach4: That 3 or 4 hours gaming is a reality for many, but it's scarey. How many other activities (physical) are falling by the wayside.
22:06:26 SusanEttenheim: was that atmospire?
22:07:00 JennaMcWillams: @carolteach4, what if the time is taken from the hours kids typically spend watching TV or surfing passively?
22:07:12 Fred Haas: Yes!
22:07:39 SusanEttenheim: hi timslim welcome!
22:07:40 Fleep: Yes! Play a game!
22:07:44 timslim: hi susan
22:07:47 timslim: happy new year.
22:07:49 Fleep: Come to Second Life, join a WoW guild
22:07:49 Ilka: Create games requiring movement for success. With the Wii technology, that is possible.
22:07:50 Fleep: ;)
22:07:56 SusanEttenheim: ok who knows good games for the droid?
22:07:57 Martha C: I just got a new game and this is like, my first time online in a few days. lol
22:07:58 Al Doyle Q2L: www.atmosphir.com  is currently closed but beta testing is scheduled to re-open soon...
22:07:59 timslim: hmm - think i got my timezones mixed up - i'm an our late
22:08:04 SusanEttenheim: or the itouch?
22:08:06 timslim: hour
22:08:07 JennaMcWillams: oh jeez, i SO want to learn to play WoW
22:08:10 Barry: @carolteach34 my 3.5 year olds favorite game is World of Goo, which is a game all about physics
22:08:37 matthew valia: read james paul gee
22:08:52 Barry: indeed!
22:08:54 Al Doyle Q2L: World of Goo is terrific! Fantastic Contraption is another good one...
22:08:55 Barry: in a book group
22:09:05 timslim: Fantastic Contraption +1
22:09:06 carolteach4: Participating in these webinars is a form of gaming for me, believe it or not.
22:09:18 SusanEttenheim: thanks al!
22:09:23 Barry: Ready to level up?
22:09:27 SusanEttenheim: and how did you spell atmospire again?
22:09:51 Fleep: Fantastic Contraption +1
22:09:53 Al Doyle Q2L: Dimension M is a pre-algebra first person shooter game.
22:09:54 carolteach4: Good foood for thought. I will pass this on to our Technology Committee's group studying using games in education.
22:10:14 Al Doyle Q2L: james paul gee : terrific resource
22:10:21 matthew valia: do people play dim m my kids didn
22:10:25 matthew valia: t like it
22:10:44 Al Doyle Q2L: Can we list the conferences:
22:10:51 Barry: Games For Change - NYC,. May
22:10:55 Martha C: Hopefully, we can get gaming as a part of my school's curriculum too. ;) Watcha think, Mr. Allison? ^__^
22:11:02 JennaMcWillams: lol
22:11:04 Barry: Games, Learning and Society, Madison, WI, June
22:11:32 carolteach4: With 3-D televisions coming out and with the new projectors for the classroom with 3D capability, we can only guess at what's coming in terms of virtual learning
22:11:49 Barry: Immersive learning
22:11:52 Al Doyle Q2L: My email is email@example.com  if anyone wants to visit or follow up on conversations.
22:12:03 JennaMcWillams: holy cow i would LOVE to visit
22:12:07 SusanEttenheim: I want to visit Al!
22:12:16 SusanEttenheim: Where are you jenna?
22:12:17 carolteach4: Student voices - very important - don't do this enough
22:12:19 timslim: all my students are on summer holidays - i couldnt' get them in. :)
22:12:38 Martha C: Academy Rants. =]
22:13:23 adamaig: i'd love to get an atmosphir account....
22:13:53 matthew valia: lots of lots of games talks at NYU through the G4LI program
22:13:55 JennaMcWillams: oh but the danger of marketing games and learning better is the risk of having games co-opted in ways we don't like...
22:14:22 firstname.lastname@example.org: @Jenna - co-opted in what way?
22:14:28 Al Doyle Q2L: All are invited to visit Q2L, perhaps a group visit. Again,
22:14:32 Fred Haas: Thanks for this Susan and Paul. This topic has been on an always-on backburner in my brain for the last year and a half.
22:14:41 timslim: if it's helping learning - then it shouldn't matter on what form it takes.
22:14:41 JennaMcWillams: like how we brought in new media technologies and turned them into test prep tools
22:15:29 Al Doyle Q2L: email@example.com 
22:15:51 Fleep: Thanks to everyone, good talk this evening!
22:16:09 Barry: Bye!
22:16:13 JennaMcWillams: bye everyone!
22:16:15 Ilka: Thank you for the ideas!
22:16:18 Fred Haas: 'night
22:16:19 PaulOh: good night!
22:16:23 PaulOh: thanks everyone!
22:16:24 firstname.lastname@example.org: Gotta return to my games!
22:16:31 email@example.com: good night
22:16:36 Martha C: This was fun!
22:16:37 SusanEttenheim: night everyone
22:16:40 Martha C: night
22:16:49 timslim: susan - are shownotes/chat log available - seeing i missed the show?
22:22:31 RafiSanto: hey all, was wondering if the backchannel will be posted somewhere, I sadly wasn't able to be on it during the talk as it was making my computer sound like a vacuum cleaner :/
22:29:03 Al Doyle Q2L: http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/video?id+141078