It's Elementary Show #34 Messing Around with Math

We talked about Logo programming language and math in the elementary classroom with our guest Colleen King.

• Maria shared her background with Logo and Roamer robots in her kinder class, and her connections with Colleen who runs an after school Math Group and the Math Playground [13] web site
• Colleen described about how programming and programming robots can be used to teach mathematics in a way that is fun and gets to standards
• There was a discussion about Second Life and how promising this could be for math instruction with children.
• Colleen talked about the need for not just interactive but open-ended math games that don't have just one right answer
• We finished with an interesting discussion about manipulatives, and how Colleen and Maria's thinking about online manipulatives had changed over time from negative to positive.

Chat Log

21:00:15 Durff: hi!
21:00:24 matt montagne: nothing like a little phone call
21:01:27 LParisi: Is Colleen coming into the chatroom?
21:01:31 Durff: hi angela
21:01:33 LParisi: Hello Colleen
21:01:42 alicemercer: nope, we'll pass along questions
21:01:47 angelamaiers: Hi Durff- How is your Monday?
21:01:53 Durff: hot
21:02:27 Durff: hi peggy
21:02:32 PeggyG: Hi everyone
21:02:35 MariaK: http://www.mathplayground.com/ [13]
21:02:37 angelamaiers: Hi Peggy!
21:02:38 sheila: Hi!
21:02:46 PeggyG: Is that Colleen talking?
21:02:50 sheila: yes
21:02:51 angelamaiers: Thanks for the link!
21:03:04 PeggyG: Hi Angela!
21:03:19 PeggyG: Hi Sheila!
21:03:23 Durff: yes colleen king
21:03:38 matt montagne: It's Elementary Crew rocked it last Tuesday on Earthcast09!!!
21:03:40 derrallg: How did Colleen become inspired to do mathplayground?
21:03:50 PeggyG: I knew it!! She does so many amazing things on her site!!
21:04:03 matt montagne: hello to Angela, Peggy, et al
21:04:35 PeggyG: Hi Matt-great to see so many ETT friends online tonight!
21:04:56 sheila: Chat window is acting up will be back.
21:05:10 Durff: wb sheila
21:05:21 PeggyG: back up and talk about what logo is :-)
21:05:22 sheila: much better now!
21:05:38 PeggyG: Colleen is reading my mind :-)
21:05:45 Durff: :)
21:05:49 alicemercer: There ya go Peggy!
21:06:00 PeggyG: love it!
21:06:08 MariaK: http://www.valiant-technology.com/us/pages/what_is_roamer.php?cat=8id0 [14]
21:07:02 Durff: YA SL!!
21:07:06 matt montagne: microworlds is the bomb...still love that program
21:07:07 MariaK: http://el.media.mit.edu/Logo-foundation/logo/index.html [15]
21:07:13 MariaK: logo info
21:07:43 PeggyG: I started using logo many years ago and was so happy that we were able to move beyond it to much more user friendly tools. :-)
21:08:15 matt montagne: logo has been around since what, '58 technically??
21:08:33 derrallg: Can you compare logo to scratch?
21:08:35 matt montagne: logo can be used to program lego RCX CPUs as well
21:08:51 matt montagne: similar, Derrall...more textual is logo
21:08:57 PeggyG: at least! I was using it in the 70's
21:09:36 matt montagne: is microworlds still a relevant application??
21:09:48 matt montagne: or is microworlds dying off??
21:10:01 matt montagne: Hyperstudio had a nice programming language built in as well
21:10:22 PeggyG: this is amazing! I can't imagine using microworlds with Kindergarten kids!
21:11:06 matt montagne: microworlds is a great painting and drawing platform as well peggy...so a nice program for K-5 just to play with and explore
21:11:07 PeggyG: Maria is such an inspiring role model for us!!
21:11:40 PeggyG: I need to go back and try again--if Kdgs' can do it I should be able to!
21:11:54 Durff: tell them they are magicians
21:12:02 PeggyG: they really are!
21:12:02 Durff: hi dgoodman
21:12:59 PeggyG: I have Microworlds on my computer since I learned about it at the Constructivist Consortium but haven't really explored it. Now I'm inspired!
21:13:22 Durff: geometry in kindergarten?
21:13:38 Durff: hi nedra
21:13:58 Nedra: hi Durff
21:14:16 Durff: wb dgoodman
21:14:35 PeggyG: Hi dgoodman and nedra
21:14:39 dgoodman: Hello-had trouble with sound
21:15:03 Durff: on both ustream and shoutcast i think
21:15:05 dgoodman: topic?
21:15:11 Durff: math
21:15:28 Durff: giest = ms. mathplayground herself
21:15:29 PeggyG: http://www.mathplayground.com/ [13]
21:15:41 dgoodman: thanks
21:15:46 Durff: aka colleen king
21:16:33 PeggyG: @Colleen--how do you persuade other teachers to use programming with their students?
21:17:51 Durff: hokie pokie?
21:18:09 Durff: wb matt
21:18:17 matt montagne: dunno wahat happened there
21:18:24 Durff: the roamer could fetch the coffee!
21:18:51 matt montagne: have them talk to Gary Stager!
21:19:16 PeggyG: yes Gary is very enthusiastic about it!!
21:19:59 matt montagne: I do agree with Gary regarding programming...I would like students to be building real objects via programming more often in school...
21:20:50 Durff: hi dorie
21:20:51 PeggyG: I think it does take quite a bit of time to be productive with the programming though and regular classroom teachers might not feel they can spend that much time one it
21:21:05 doriedance: Hello
21:21:18 PeggyG: Hi doriedance
21:21:28 doriedance: not hearing anything?
21:21:39 PeggyG: click on the ustream play button
21:21:45 Durff: click on the black icon under ETT A
21:22:09 Durff: we have a party of streams going on
21:22:13 matt montagne: programming is the penultimate process oriented task...the product really doesn't matter..but the process does...
21:22:19 PeggyG: so many choices :-)
21:22:32 Durff: penultimate - great word
21:22:46 sheila: This talk reminds me of real-life applications like the rover in Antarctica (which may go to Europa) http://www.evl.uic.edu/endurance/details.html [16]
21:22:48 matt montagne: dunno know what it means durff...but thought I'd try it ;-0
21:22:52 PeggyG: @matt-that's what many parents have a problem with--they understand product and less so the value of the process
21:23:04 Durff: it sounds good anyway
21:23:07 PeggyG: definitely Sheila! great comparison
21:23:26 derrallg: @matt was wondering how next to last fit in there
21:23:52 Durff: his word of the day, i suspect
21:24:01 Durff: paul - you're late
21:24:06 matt montagne: one of the lunar rovers, I believe, was actually based on MIT's lab view programming software
21:24:07 sheila: Our 8th graders robot under Antarctic ice at http://www.polartrec.org/node/6881 [17]
21:24:16 paulrwood: Just got home from work
21:24:40 PeggyG: that was an amazing demonstration from Antarctica!
21:24:40 Durff: we have two streams - shoutcast on ETT A or ustream
21:24:55 Durff: yes!
21:25:03 Durff: my kids liked that
21:25:07 PeggyG: Hi paulrwood! great to see you
21:25:08 matt montagne: ustream is better tho...it is more real time.
21:25:25 paulrwood: Glad to be here PeggyG
21:25:30 Durff: shoutcast is better - it's matt's
21:25:43 Durff: we gotta build him up
21:25:46 matt montagne: And, we have a great technical producer running things tonite to ustream ;-)
21:25:59 Durff: we do?
21:26:07 PeggyG: I really love the things Colleen does with mathcasts on Voicethread
21:26:47 matt montagne: @durff...I don't know, do we ;-)
21:27:07 PeggyG: Colleen's site is "one stop shopping" for fantastic math resources for elementary students!
21:27:36 derrallg: I love when I hear teachers in my district who don't really keep up on current trends referencing mathplayground
21:27:46 JoseRodriguez: Hey There... finally made it.
21:27:58 PeggyG: whew! relieved to know I don't have to go to second life to find Colleen!
21:27:58 derrallg: hey Jose
21:28:20 sheila: Our school has Math Playground on our Math web page. It's been there for a long time. Math teacher uses it.
21:28:56 PeggyG: that makes a lot of sense since elementary kids can't access second life
21:29:03 JoseRodriguez: what's the link for math playground?
21:29:14 Durff: their teachers can and do
21:29:31 PeggyG: http://www.mathplayground.com/ [13]
21:29:37 JoseRodriguez: thanks
21:29:50 JoseRodriguez: Where is Carmen Sandiego.. kind of deal?
21:29:54 Durff: where is Carmen Sandiego reprisal
21:29:58 sheila: Ohh! Sounds interesting!
21:30:14 Durff: Jose you and I thought alike
21:30:21 JoseRodriguez: yep
21:30:22 derrallg: that sounds great
21:30:25 LParisi: Too late for me.  Need it now.  ;)
21:30:27 PeggyG: listen to all of those standards embedded in what she is saying!! :-)
21:31:26 PeggyG: are the math games on your site interactive among students? (not just interactive for the user)
21:32:23 PeggyG: yes collaborative :-) thanks Maria
21:32:28 Durff: you gave her ideas!
21:33:02 Durff: i draw good stick figures
21:33:03 JoseRodriguez: Peter Reynolds does both
21:33:05 PeggyG: the kids are the best artists :-)
21:33:22 PeggyG: yes Jose-Animation-ish is an incredible tool!
21:33:58 LParisi: Daughter is ready for Flash now, Colleen.
21:34:00 PeggyG: fantastic collaboration with Lisa P's daughter! :-)
21:34:36 PeggyG: http://thatquiz.com [18]
21:34:58 Durff: Peggy the Google Jockey
21:35:06 PeggyG: sorry-should be http://thatquiz.org [19] I think
21:35:31 PeggyG: available in both Spanish and English (and other languages)
21:35:44 Durff: not German?
21:35:54 PeggyG: Yes German is listed there
21:36:14 Durff: I was kidding
21:36:36 PeggyG: Colleen thought of everything for her site!
21:36:55 Durff: wb derrallg
21:37:30 derrallg: thanks durff, still having FF crash issues when clicking on links
21:37:35 JoseRodriguez: model your math... sounds really good
21:38:15 derrallg: @jose what was the link you refered to?
21:38:18 PeggyG: that is fantastic for helping students to understand concepts! wow!
21:38:24 Durff: ah then don't click on anything
21:38:46 LParisi: I am surprised they didn't mention Math Playground.  We LOVE math playground!
21:39:13 PeggyG: http://www.thatquiz.org/  [20] Think that was the site Jose mentioned
21:39:14 Durff: we are atypical
21:39:25 derrallg: thanks PeggyG
21:39:36 JoseRodriguez: thanks peggy
21:39:38 LParisi: We also know Colleen, Durff, so that helps. :)
21:39:47 Durff: true
21:40:10 doriedance: Looks similar to Singapore Math.  Are you familiar?
21:40:10 sheila: Look and feel of the site is nice. Doesn't look too young for the middle school kids.
21:40:28 derrallg: I usually try to do this math mystery every year http://www.pbs.org/teachers/mathline/xyencounter/index_student.shtm [21]
21:40:31 matt montagne: I have issues with math instructors in our coutnry...I think we teach students to become mathematicians...most high school students that I see are in a total math daze...they've memorized the algorithims and have memorized how to apply the algorithum
21:40:34 Durff: no, tell us
21:40:39 PeggyG: I can't help but wish that I had a teacher like Colleen when I was learning math--I might understand it better now!!
21:40:47 matt montagne: I mean, "math instruction"
21:41:10 doriedance: uses model drawing
21:41:16 doriedance: unit bars
21:41:16 PeggyG: so true Matt--that's how I learned math and now can't remember what I learned
21:41:58 Durff: i find the opposite peggy
21:42:22 matt montagne: math depts should be abolished...it should be about engineering, applied math, science and technology...it should be about solving real problems
21:42:26 PeggyG: you mean you can still remember all the rules and algorithms Durff?
21:42:34 Durff: i walked into an algebra class the other day, picked up the book, and new what to cover
21:42:40 LParisi: I think we just need to be careful about not allowing students to actually handle manipulatives...for some kids it is important.
21:42:52 derrallg: we had some PD this year and they gave us lessons but said we had to buy the manipulatives
21:43:02 Durff: teaching kids to think, not the one correct answer is key
21:43:52 derrallg: I don't put my students on the drill and kill flash games
21:43:54 Durff: Peggy - I don't have those things memorized, no
21:44:07 LParisi: There's also Cyberchase
21:44:19 Durff: 1 minuite
21:44:36 derrallg: yes there is one answer to find aliens
21:44:40 PeggyG: I like all of the math resources provided in the New Zealand math curriculums--lots of problem solving/creative things that require thinking without a single correct answer
21:44:54 doriedance: mindinstitute ST Math-district has to purchase
21:45:00 doriedance: not about creating though
21:45:11 PeggyG: I loved the Zoombinis :-) my grandkids grew up with it
21:45:19 derrallg: I liked the Zoombinis too
21:45:30 doriedance: Kidspiration 3-allows kids to create their own
21:45:50 PeggyG: yes-the tessalation sites! good example
21:46:38 derrallg: nice recovery
21:46:51 Durff: we thank you all for coming to our show tonight!!
21:47:22 PeggyG: http://nzmaths.co.nz/ [22] have any of you used the New Zealand materials in your teaching?
21:48:37 Durff: there goes that google jockey again
21:48:37 PeggyG: very nice summary Alice! I always appreciate that!
21:48:45 MariaK: http://constructingmodernknowledge.com/cmk08/summer-institute-cmk-09/ [23]
21:49:36 PeggyG: I heard you talk about that on an earlier show Maria and was so impressed with everything you experienced at Constructing Modern Knowledge!
21:50:09 matt montagne: the elves
21:50:19 PeggyG: Wonderful conversation!! Really enjoyed being reminded about Colleen's site! Such valuable resources!!
21:50:21 matt montagne: thanks to the elves
21:50:22 alicemercer: Did she mention you Matt? Matt is our streamer
21:50:32 matt montagne: I'm not streaming
21:50:35 matt montagne: the elves are streaming
21:50:36 alicemercer: mizmercer
21:50:43 JoseRodriguez: Hi Nedra....
21:50:51 PeggyG: those elves are truly remarkable!!
21:50:55 JoseRodriguez: sorry she just left.
21:51:02 Durff: ty elves
21:51:16 matt montagne: 'twasn't me
21:51:20 matt montagne: 'twas the elves
21:51:34 matt montagne: go california!!!
21:51:38 alicemercer: miz mercer or alice.mercer
21:51:42 derrallg: left coasters
21:51:47 matt montagne: lots of west coasters in the house!!
21:51:48 JoseRodriguez: thanks dudes...
21:52:06 PeggyG: I'm happy to listen and type :-)
21:52:31 PeggyG: Can Colleen talk about her Voicethread uses?
21:53:07 PeggyG: yes yes!!
21:53:08 sheila: You have the advantage of time zone!
21:53:26 JoseRodriguez: now that sounds interesting... mathcast... voicethread. interesting
21:53:56 PeggyG: Tim seems to have gradually moved from video to voicethread--I really love the mathcasts and use them as examples for VT all the time.
21:54:33 alicemercer: http://mathtrain.com [24]
21:54:36 PeggyG: http://math247.pbwiki.com/Mathcasts%20By%20Students [25]
21:54:40 MariaK: http://www.mathcasts.org/ [26]
21:55:19 PeggyG: Lisa Parisi's students - http://math247.pbwiki.com/South+Paris+Collaborative's+Mathcast+Portfolio
21:55:36 PeggyG: yes commoncraft :-)
21:55:47 LParisi: We just did that today!
21:55:56 PeggyG: what a great idea Maria!
21:56:05 LParisi: We retold a folktale like Common Craft
21:56:19 PeggyG: there are many people copying the common craft model :-)
21:56:34 alicemercer: can't copyright stick figures!
21:56:41 alicemercer: And paper craft? nope
21:56:44 JoseRodriguez: www.mathtrain.com  [27] pretty cool site and it runs on a moodle
21:57:06 JoseRodriguez: thanks for link,
21:57:09 JoseRodriguez: alice
21:57:14 alicemercer: I"m good
21:58:18 PeggyG: have you seen his video called saving money in plain English?
21:58:49 PeggyG: http://www.commoncraft.com/saving-money [28]
21:59:05 PeggyG: Thanks everyone! Great show!!
21:59:10 sheila: Thanks all!
22:00:51 JoseRodriguez: just added some cool links to my delicious..
22:01:01 JoseRodriguez: Thanks maria.. great guest today....