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Teachers Teaching Teachers #177 Reflections on the National Writing Project's 2009 Annual Meeting at a Seminal Moment - 12.02.09

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  • Length: 59:35 minutes (13.64 MB)
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Before the Thanksgiving turkey there was…

After coming home from these conferences in Philadelphia, we invited a few friends from a recent show —

TTT #175 - Looking Forward to the National Writing Project’s Annual Meeting with 3 Presenters - 11.04.09

— to join us again, this time to reflect on the workshops, presentations, meetings, and conversations in the hallway that might still have been fresh in their memories. We wanted to find out what they had learned at the NWP's Annual Meeting this year, and what they were planning to do with all of the connections and ideas they had brought home with them.

This podcast, co-sponsored by the New York City Writing Project and the NWP Technology Liaisons Network, featured:

Click Read more to see a transcript of a chat that was happening during the webcast.

[20:47] == PaulAllison [i=44af6394@gateway/web/freenode/x-aslrpiflakmiukge] has joined #edtechtalk
[20:47] <@Joe_Conroy> :)
[20:48] <@Joe_Conroy> Reviewing the sessions I attended. This was the first year I didn't take detailed notes on each session
[20:50] <Chuck_> Joe, I can't remember what city you're in
[20:51] <Chuck_> El Paso?
[20:52] == Candace [i=4681bf65@gateway/web/freenode/x-tonsygctfonrydcp] has joined #edtechtalk
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[20:53] <SusanEttenheim> hi candace  - welcome!
[20:53] == KimMc [i=ae3641e0@gateway/web/freenode/x-jyrtoxjwqrcnexgk] has joined #edtechtalk
[20:53] <KimMc> Hey Candace! Thanks for the Twitter invite.  I am in grading avoidance
[20:54] <SusanEttenheim> hi kim welcome!
[20:54] <KimMc> thanks, susan
[20:54] == Joe_Conroy [i=477d9e3c@gateway/web/freenode/x-nkncxnmfapfwpzya] has joined #edtechtalk
[20:54] <Candace> Hey Kim! [I should be at least writing a quiz... but I decided no grading tonight. Need a break! :) ]
[20:54] <Joe_Conroy> Back... had to quite Safari
[20:55] <Candace> Hello Susan!
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[20:57] <SusanEttenheim>                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    hi! you should all be able to hear us now!                                                                                                                 
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[21:03] <SusanEttenheim> hi peggy!
[21:03] == ElyseEA [i=4c7e427a@gateway/web/freenode/x-jrlbthnmzgsdplaz] has joined #edtechtalk
[21:04] <SusanEttenheim> hi elysea welcome back!
[21:04] <PeggyG> Hi Susan and Paul and all!!
[21:04] <ElyseEA> Hi Susan
[21:04] <ElyseEA> New chat?
[21:04] <SusanEttenheim> yes
[21:04] <PeggyG> Excited to hear from Berkeley tonight!
[21:05] <PaulAllison> http://paulallison.tumblr.com/post/265653290/reflecting-on-philadelphia-...
[21:05] <PeggyG> Mac dongles :-) a definite necessity! I think I have about 4 of them.
[21:05] <ElyseEA> Yes, Mac dongles!
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[21:07] <ElyseEA> There is a bit of this on YouTube...the sticky note activity. I'll try to find the URL.
[21:07] <SusanEttenheim> hi eileen welcome!
[21:07] <PaulAllison> http://www.nwp.org/cs/public/print/nwp_amsession/1584
[21:07] <SusanEttenheim> eileen- and everyone... please introduce yourself!
[21:08] <PeggyG> I'm a regular TTT participant and huge fan! I'm a retired elementary principal and university pre-service instructor in Phoenix AZ
[21:08] <KimMc> Hi, I'm Kim and I'm an English teacher educator in Pennsylvania.  I also teach first year composition at the same uni
[21:09] <PeggyG> That sounds like a fantastic conference!
[21:09] <Candace> Hello! I'm a HS English teacher in MO.
[21:09] <SusanEttenheim> hi all - I'm Susan and I'm at Eleanor Roosevelt High School in NYC
[21:09] <Eileen_> Hi, I'm Eileen K. a first time participant here and I teach 3rd,4th,5th grade Writing and Math
[21:09] <PeggyG> getting all of your tech equipment to a conference is always a challenge!!
[21:10] <SusanEttenheim> welcome eileen! which state?
[21:10] <Eileen_> Pennsylvania
[21:10] <ElyseEA> The session described earlier that Paul was part of is captured in a YouTube video, starting at about 2:45 m into the video, at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFiOrscAd2E
[21:10] <SusanEttenheim> ahhh
[21:10] <PaulAllison> http://www.nwp.org/cs/public/print/nwp_amsession/1582
[21:10] <Fred__> Hi all, I am Fred Haas a high school English teacher outside Boston
[21:10] <PeggyG> thanks for that link! can't wait to watch it!
[21:11] <PaulAllison> Hi Fred.
[21:11] <PaulAllison> Do you want to join us?
[21:11] <ElyseEA> Hi Fred, It's Elyse. Nice to e-see you.
[21:11] <PeggyG> That is such an excellent book!!
[21:11] <SusanEttenheim> fred - is your skype running?
[21:12] <Paul____> here's a link to the book, teaching the new writing: http://www.nwp.org/cs/public/print/books/teachingnewwriting
[21:12] <Fred__> @Elyse Hi there - right back at you
[21:13] <PeggyG> a techie is a person who takes their laptop to a conference :-)
[21:13] <Fred__> @Susan I am not Skype avaliable at the moment, but perhaps a little later in the hour
[21:13] <SusanEttenheim> ok! just let me know!
[21:13] <KimMc> a techie is live streaming or live-twittering during the presentations!
[21:13] <ElyseEA> You can see a profile of Seth Mitchell that is part of a PDK piece on teachers at http://www.nwp.org/cs/public/print/resource/2982
[21:13] <KimMc> sorry live-tweeting
[21:13] <PaulAllison> http://www.nwp.org/cs/public/print/nwp_amsession/1607
[21:14] <Chuck_> Peggy, that's a good question. It is kind of a changing concept.
[21:15] <PeggyG> Tech conferences like NECC/ISTE are so different than other professional conferences like ASCD--everyone has a laptop or iphone to tweet, blog, explore at NECC
[21:16] <PeggyG> great strategy Paul!
[21:16] <ElyseEA> @PeggyG  We saw a huge growth in this at NWP this year. For the Digital Is day we worked a one-day ning into the day, but throughout the conference, the 'stuff' was very evident
[21:16] <Candace> Are we supposed to see something in the u stream box on the right?
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[21:17] <Robert____> I found the "Digital Is" ning very helpful
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[21:17] <ElyseEA> Great, Robert.  It was a big experiment, of course.
[21:17] <PeggyG> @Candace- no ustream tonight just audio from ETT-A
[21:18] <PeggyG> that's really exciting ElyseEA!!
[21:18] <Candace> How do I hear that?
[21:18] <Robert____> It was just so useful to have a "central portal" link the ning for all to refer to.
[21:19] <PaulAllison> http://www.nwp.org/cs/public/print/nwp_amsession/1608
[21:19] <PeggyG> @Candace--click on one of the media player icons--the first one opens in iTunes
[21:20] <SusanEttenheim> candace - do you not have sound?
[21:20] <PeggyG> @Robert--such a great point about the common portal!
[21:20] <KimMc> Re-mix is pretty cool--I heard KB Yancey talk about this at NCTE
[21:22] <PaulAllison> http://nwpdigitalis.ning.com/
[21:22] <ElyseEA> Thanks Paul.  Yes, the ning is open now that the day has passed, so listeners would be free to visit.
[21:23] <ElyseEA> We'll soon be loading up some photos, etc.
[21:23] <Candace> Got it - thanks!!
[21:24] <ElyseEA> Great to hear from the perspective of a participant in the days -- that's the goal!
[21:24] <SusanEttenheim> great candace!
[21:25] <PaulAllison> http://www.nwp.org/cs/public/print/nwp_amsession/1608
[21:27] <PeggyG> congrats Candace!!
[21:27] == sara_ [i=4b61e3fc@gateway/web/freenode/x-zvvmawcclqumwpjh] has joined #edtechtalk
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[21:27] <SusanEttenheim> hi sara welcome!
[21:28] <Chuck_> http://hdwp.org/remix
[21:28] <Eileen_> What program are you using tomake the videos after school?
[21:28] <fredhaas> Anyone new to the remix idea should take a look at the film RIP: A Remix Manifesto more available @ http://www.ripremix.com/
[21:28] == sara_ [i=4b61e3fc@gateway/web/freenode/x-cqonntuqawmqyxgh] has joined #edtechtalk
[21:28] <ElyseEA> I think one of the things we might think about is how the essence of remixing is a lens to look at someone like, say, Shakespeare, who took and mixed a range of sources with the expectation that the audience would know what the referents were
[21:29] <ElyseEA> It is certainly a serious new media practice, but we could look at it as something with a longer history
[21:29] <fredhaas> Renee Hobbs workshop was the highlight of the meeting for me.
[21:29] <sara_> Okay, I'm just joining in.  So glad my buddy joe is featured here. Repurposing.  I think this makes an interesting connection with multi-genre approaches.
[21:30] <Paul____> here is a resource on fair use based on some of Renee Hobbs' work: http://www.nwp.org/cs/public/print/resource/2859
[21:30] <PeggyG> the earlier conversations with some of the authors were so helpful with stories and examples of the various writing projects like the remix projects. I learned so much!
[21:30] <chris_______> and lots of resources at the Media Education Lab at Temple too: http://mediaeducationlab.com/code-best-practices-fair-use-media-literacy...
[21:30] <ElyseEA> And here is material from the Media Eduction Lab  http://mediaeducationlab.com/code-best-practices-fair-use-media-literacy-education
[21:31] <ElyseEA> Hi Chris -- simultaneous posting!
[21:31] <PeggyG> those are fantastic resources ElyseEA!! thanks for sharing the links!
[21:31] <PeggyG> you and Chris are on the same wavelength!
[21:31] <chris_______> :)
[21:32] <KimMc> Awesome stuff--thanks! Diigolet is hopping tonight
[21:32] <Chuck_> Eileen, these students mainly use iMovie, Garageband, and web browsers
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[21:32] <ElyseEA> We will be working to have the Media Education Lab do more of this work with the NWP.  It is essential if we are to teach new media practices that students have access to a pool of work
[21:33] <PeggyG> I agree ElyseEA!!
[21:33] <fredhaas> There is so much confusion about copyright partly from deliberate obfuscation
[21:33] <ElyseEA> Creative commons has recently opened a music site for remixing called ccMixter
[21:33] <fredhaas> Shepard Fairey used an AP photo
[21:33] <PeggyG> Joyce Valenza does some awesome presentations on transformative uses too!
[21:33] <joycevalenza> thanks, peggy
[21:33] <joycevalenza> cannot get sound guys!
[21:34] <SusanEttenheim> hi joyce!
[21:34] <PeggyG> Hi Joyce! I didn't see you come in!
[21:34] <Joe_Conroy> I attended the Powerful Voices Institute from the Media Ed Lab from Temple. The experience immersed me into media literacy, which I'd like to think of as one facet of New Literacy. Media Lit has fantastic application for the reading/writing classroom
[21:34] <Robert____> love ccMixter
[21:34] <SusanEttenheim> please introduce yourself!
[21:34] <sara_> I podcast with my students and direct them to the Podsafe Music Network for their podcast segments.  They listen and write down the songs they like; I download them and incorporate when I mix down.  It works beautifully.  http://www.musicalley.com/index.php
[21:34] <PeggyG> I was about to post your wiki! http://copyrightfriendly.wikispaces.com/
[21:34] <ElyseEA> The sound is on EdTechTalk A... first icon was working on iTunes
[21:34] <Joe_Conroy> Is the Podsafe Music Network the best Creative Commons music site you've found?
[21:35] <fredhaas> You said it Paul, the liklihood of Fairey losing may have more to do with his behavior after the fact than his actual use
[21:35] <ElyseEA> that's right, Paul
[21:35] <PeggyG> the focus has to be on repurposing with the kids!
[21:36] <sara_> It's the easiest to use.  You need to have an rss feed to register, so it's for serious users, not just kids who want to load up their ipods.  Also, the searchability is FANtastic.  I often hear that kids get exposure to some genres they have not previously encountered, just because they're hunting around.
[21:37] <PeggyG> CC Mixter is a good site too. Matt Montagne's Gator Radio students frequently use music from there.
[21:37] <Joe_Conroy> Ran into issues with inappropriate content with Podsafe. FindSounds.Com and FreePlayMusic.Com were some other recommendations.
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[21:37] <PeggyG> http://ccmixter.org/view/media/home
[21:37] <fredhaas> Interestingly, Simon Cowell basically plays a stock role on American Idol
[21:38] <ElyseEA> Yes, the reflections and discussions are key.  that's where the teaching comes in
[21:38] <sara_> I'm totally in tune with what is being said right now.  A responsibility to one's audience is something that is much more powerful to the student learner with podcasting than it has been with any other "just write and turn in to the teacher" kind of writing.
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[21:40] <sara_> I find it hilarious that young people find Simon Cowell mean and do not understand that he's playing a role, and a very necessary one at that.  They see everything as "reality tv" and therefore mistake the onstage personality for his actual personality.
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[21:40] <fredhaas> I think one of the most fundamental aspects of the transformative nature of remixing has to do with adjusting a rhetorical stance of the original piece
[21:40] <Chuck_> Simon has become an identifiable archetype
[21:40] <Chuck_> Completely agree Fred--well said
[21:41] <fredhaas> @sara- He has a very different demeanor on the original British version of the show, not nearly as harsh. Gordon Ramsey does a similar turn on his shows as well
[21:41] <sara_> I think one of the roles of teacher in the classroom is to talk logical fallacy, responsibility, audience, and facilitate face-to-face interaction since THAT is what is in deficit once they leave my classroom.
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[21:42] <Chuck_> Is Ramsey the Hell's Kitchen chef?
[21:42] <ElyseEA> Yes, Fred.  I think it is a useful thing to do for us as teachers to collect and share examples of new media that illustrate the rhetorical practices.
[21:42] <ElyseEA> Ones that students can wrap their heads around.  Sort of the equivalent of a reader...
[21:44] <fredhaas> @Elyse - The rhetorical importance really emerged while I listened to Renee Hobbs but become more clear in talking her after her session
[21:44] <sara_> I wrote (with the help of some sources on logical fallacy) a play in 14 acts called "slice the manure."  Students perform the short scenes in class, then try to determine which scene is representative of each of 14 different fallacies.  Ad hominem, straw man, black&white thinking, false dilemma, etc.  It's a lot of fun and great preparation for our formal policy debates AND media literacy.
[21:44] <PeggyG> awesome project sara!!
[21:45] <Candace> My stdnts have posted their videos for class to share on facebook (on their own!) and interact to some extent outside of class on our Nings. Good fun! :)
[21:45] <Chuck_> Interesting, Sara
[21:45] <ElyseEA> @Sara  Ha!  As in cut the crap!  :-)
[21:45] <sara_> Oh, it's code for "cut the crap."  We talk about the popularity of bullshit.
[21:45] <fredhaas> @Chuck Ramsay is the Hell's Kitchen guy and acts like a complete jerk on that show but if you see the four other shows he does in the UK he still is kind of jerk but he is a lot milder
[21:45] <PeggyG> you know they're proud of their work when they post it on Facebook on their own time :-)
[21:46] <PeggyG> do you have a link to that project Sara? would love to see it!
[21:46] <ElyseEA> @Fred  Yes, the rhetorical purpose.  That also carries the importance of the meaning carried by the original item that is being mixed.  That's key to why it is a fair use as opposed to an appropriation to save the new creator from doing his/her own original work.
[21:47] <Paul____> "What Kids Learn When They Create with Digital Media" panel discussion webcast referenced by Robert earlier - the person who spoke is Nichole Pinkard, ED of the Digital Youth Network http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUfHZu54W8c
[21:47] <sara_> This is the site I used to put the play together.  Great information.  http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/
[21:47] <Paul____> Elyse also speaks as part of that panel discussion
[21:48] <joycevalenza_> http://copyrightconfusion.wikispaces.com/NCTE09+Workshop (more resources)
[21:48] <joycevalenza_> love the backchannel.  surprised it was new to ncte
[21:48] <PeggyG> There was a great presentation by Leslie Fisher on Twitter at the Christa McAuliffe Conf in NH today-they shared his slides: http://www.lesliefisher.com/handouts/handouts/twitter.htm
[21:48] <fredhaas> Following live events while present or virtually may be one of the best utilities of Twitter
[21:49] <KimMc> is backchannel in the OED yet?
[21:49] <joycevalenza_> i heard about it through twitter, peggy!
[21:49] <Chuck_> Thanks for the link, Sara
[21:49] <PeggyG> it can be distracting when the backchannel is being displayed on the screen behind the presenter though :-)
[21:49] <PeggyG> me too Joyce!
[21:49] <joycevalenza_> there is a real division among audiences
[21:49] <ElyseEA> Yes, backchannel is in OED.  And, the OED word of the year in the US is "unfriend"...  :-)
[21:50] <KimMc> I could live without "unfriend"
[21:50] <joycevalenza_> what makes you think they didn't have attention?
[21:50] <joycevalenza_> the speaker should express a preference
[21:51] <KimMc> I have students who openly text in class right now
[21:51] <Candace> When I live-tweet, I am choosing most important ideas that I both want to remember and share. But I always worry that ppl who don't "get it" will think I'm rude.
[21:51] <ElyseEA> These are evolving norms... it's worth bringing the norms to the surface in presentations and meetings.
[21:51] <Candace> I think someday stdnts will be allowed/encouraged to use cells/laptops all the time during class. I do worry that they lack to focus/responsibility that we have at conferences though.
[21:51] <fredhaas> I have deliberately used it in presentations more recently and joked "It's okay, I'll talk to the top of your heads."
[21:52] <KimMc> It's like Discourse practice that is changing
[21:52] <sara_> I think this going to be a point of preparation for presenters.  When to interact with technology and when it is appropriate to put that aside and interact with others.  I think the important thing is to spend time thinking about it beforehand and be very specific about the structure one desires for a class, a keynote, a presentation, etc.
[21:52] <Robert____> For me, I just don't want to lose the "human dimension" of personal, face-to-face engagement with another human being
[21:52] <Robert____> I find this is increasingly important to me.
[21:53] <fredhaas> Using a backchannel is definitely a challange with younger students. I have had to have a couple conversations about exchanges on Ning chats
[21:54] <sara_> What is a backchannel, please.
[21:54] <Chuck_> I've never heard the term "backchannel"
[21:54] <ElyseEA> @Robert  I have a friend in my reading group who, when the rest of us go into our devices for some reason, shouts out "digital autism".  It's her joke name for the 'disconnect' that the devices can promote.
[21:54] <joycevalenza_> i want to set the stage for when it is appropriate. classroom norms
[21:54] <PeggyG> funny!! twitter thoughtfully :-)
[21:54] <fredhaas> @sara - it is what we are doing right now on this board - a simultaneous conversation going on behind the main conversation
[21:55] <joycevalenza_> we set all sorts of norms for classroom discussion
[21:55] <Chuck_> Robert, I'm with you. I'm the guy looking at the flight attendant when they do the seatbelt drill...
[21:55] <Seth> "digital autism" - love it
[21:55] <Robert____> That's great Chuck.  Just common courtesy, I think.
[21:55] <SusanEttenheim> If you're on the call, please please please mute when typing we hear you typing
[21:56] <PeggyG> I think that is the key, Joyce!
[21:56] <sara_> Oh, thanks.  So, it seems like they're talking about etiquette.  Elizabeth Post, anyone?  Just like with any technology, we have to learn when it is useful, when distracting, and when rude.
[21:56] <Paul____> i agree wholeheartedly, sara!
[21:56] <chris_______> as twitters ... presenters ... listeners ... and responders ... I think we need to be conscious of all of that. And I do agree we need to get better at all of that together as a community.
[21:56] <PeggyG> @chuck--I'm chuckling about your example--looking at the flight attendant :-)
[21:57] <fredhaas> @sara - exactly. The problem is that the technologies and kinds of communication are changing faster than ettiquette practices can keep up
[21:57] <ElyseEA> Harold Rheingold has a nice video about students in his class who are on their laptops, etc. in class.  In some cases it enhances for the student, in others it detracts.  His conclusion is that we need to teach the art of managing 'attention' as a key 21st c. skill.
[21:57] <sara_> But this backchanneling business CAN be a method of assessment.  Of course, that means we would have to actually look at it, sift through it, and see if students' comments are targeted to what we want them to be learning. 
[21:57] <PeggyG> I just watched Howard's video today! It's excellent!
[21:58] <sara_> Has anyone seen the Simpsons episode where the teacher walks in and the kids are all texting?
[21:58] <Paul____> @sara and backchanneling can also be a way to harrass and bully as we've seen, unfortunately
[21:58] <ElyseEA> @PeggyG  Cool synchronicity. 
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[21:58] <fredhaas> @Elyse - Rheingold rocks! Attention is quickly becoming our most valuable currency
[21:58] <Robert____> I've got to get a hold of that Simpson episode.
[21:59] <chris_______> Danielle DeVoss
[21:59] <ElyseEA> Danielle DeVoss
[21:59] <sara_> Hmm, I guess I'm lucky not to have witnessed much bullying.  I've managed to keep students focused on the material.  Ground rules.
[21:59] <ElyseEA> Her slides are in the Ning...
[21:59] <sara_> Ooh, thanks Elyse, I'll have to take a look.
[21:59] <PeggyG> Joyce don't you have that Simpson episode on one of your wikis?
[22:00] <ElyseEA> We are going to sync in her audio with the slides as a resource on the website
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[22:00] <PeggyG> great ElyseEA!! that will be really helpful to have the audio with the slides!
[22:00] <chris_______> http://nwpdigitalis.ning.com/
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[22:02] <joycevalenza_> yeah, peggy. it is in there somewhere!
[22:02] <sara_> Great backchannelling with all of you.  I'm going to put this on my list of things to do on Wednesdays.
[22:02] <joycevalenza_> one thing I noticed at NCTE was no powerpoint shift
[22:02] <Chuck_> Excellent Sara
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[22:03] <ElyseEA> @joycevalenza  Prezi rocks, though.
[22:03] <Joe_Conroy> Is Prezi easy to learn?
[22:03] <SusanEttenheim> what do you mean buy theat?
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[22:04] <ElyseEA> @Joe Conroy  Easy to learn but difficult to master.  :-)
[22:04] <SusanEttenheim> oops sorry! typos!
[22:04] <joycevalenza_> it was more about the approach to presenting, many were so 90s!
[22:05] <ElyseEA> Yes, big shout out to TTT for hosting this thread of annual meeting sessions, as well as all the other sessions you support.
[22:05] <PeggyG> you have to think differently when you use Prezi
[22:05] <SusanEttenheim> ahhh
[22:05] <PeggyG> it's non-linear
[22:05] <Chuck_> I'm going to play with Prezi but I'm afraid of it being in the "cloud"
[22:06] <fredhaas> 'Night all
[22:06] <joycevalenza_> nice to hear you all again!
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[22:06] <joycevalenza_> jeff
[22:06] <sara_> Oh, it works great.  The best part is that you don't have to BE in the cloud to use prezi.  You can download and bundle with enough software to run without an internet connection.
[22:06] <ElyseEA> Bye all
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[22:06] <SusanEttenheim> night all!
[22:06] <Joe_Conroy> Bye! Thank you for having me on the show
[22:06] <sara_> Joe, so awesome to hear you online.  See you soon!
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[22:06] <joycevalenza_> thank you!
[22:06] <Eileen_> Thanks
[22:06] <Chuck_> I didn't know that about Prezi
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[22:07] <PeggyG> This is a good Prezi example by Dean Shareski re assessment and technology: http://prezi.com/5xss8rekuzlp/
[22:07] <PeggyG> thanks everyone! great conversation again!!!
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[22:07] <Chuck_> Good night, everyone
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[22:07] <PaulAllison> Susan, did you see how to save this chat?
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