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Conversations Episode 26 02-08-09

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  • Length: 68:52 minutes (31.52 MB)
  • Format: MP3 Stereo 44kHz 64Kbps (CBR)

This week Maria Knee, Sheila Adams, and Lisa Parisi were joined by Gary Stager in a discussion about the Constructivist theory of learning.

Chat Archive:

2009-02-08 11:23:03 [Message] lparisi -> -EdTechTalk: Good morning
2009-02-08 11:27:52 [Message] lparisi -> -EdTechTalk: Audio is on and so is ustream
2009-02-08 11:28:13 [Message] sheila -> -EdTechTalk: Hi Maureen!
2009-02-08 11:28:19 [Message] lparisi -> -EdTechTalk: Hi Maureen
2009-02-08 11:28:23 [Message] Maureen -> -EdTechTalk: Hi Sheila
2009-02-08 11:28:36 [Message] mariak -> -EdTechTalk: maureen will you be able to converse with us today
2009-02-08 11:28:50 [Message] Maureen -> -EdTechTalk: The EttA stream didn't work, but ustream is up
2009-02-08 11:30:35 [Message] Maureen -> -EdTechTalk: I tried it again and it bumped me out... skype is fine
2009-02-08 11:30:38 [Message] sanmccarron -> -EdTechTalk: How to get this?
2009-02-08 11:30:53 [Message] Maureen -> -EdTechTalk: sorry I meant ustream is fine
2009-02-08 11:31:14 [Message] annelisewojo -> -EdTechTalk: How do I get sound?
2009-02-08 11:31:24 [Message] Maureen -> -EdTechTalk: The ustream is working
2009-02-08 11:31:32 [Message] sheila -> -EdTechTalk: Hello everyone. We are using ustream. Click on the play button for ustream. We are also using ETTA
2009-02-08 11:31:35 [Message] sanmccarron -> -EdTechTalk: What where is ustream?
2009-02-08 11:31:53 [Message] sheila -> -EdTechTalk: The box with the hearts.
2009-02-08 11:32:22 [Message] sheila -> -EdTechTalk: There's a little play button. 
2009-02-08 11:32:27 [Message] lparisi -> -EdTechTalk: Can anyone hear us on the audio stream?
2009-02-08 11:32:29 [Message] sheila -> -EdTechTalk: Also check the sound
2009-02-08 11:32:30 [Message] sanmccarron -> -EdTechTalk: I now have sound
2009-02-08 11:32:36 [Message] sanmccarron -> -EdTechTalk: Thank you.
2009-02-08 11:32:42 [Message] nancykeane -> -EdTechTalk: I have sound now!
2009-02-08 11:32:43 [Message] sheila -> -EdTechTalk: Good
2009-02-08 11:32:49 [Message] mariak -> -EdTechTalk: almost set - thanks for waiting
2009-02-08 11:35:12 [Message] Maureen -> -EdTechTalk: @maria- I need medicine too!
2009-02-08 11:36:15 [Message] mariak -> -EdTechTalk: are you betteer today maureen
2009-02-08 11:37:05 [Message] Maureen -> -EdTechTalk: I have a splitting headache and generally feel awful- hoping it will go away, but better than yesterday- spent in bed.
2009-02-08 11:38:55 [Message] sheila -> -EdTechTalk: Hello goldenbergj
2009-02-08 11:39:52 [Message] mariak -> -EdTechTalk: Gary's sound is choppy for me - what about you?
2009-02-08 11:40:00 [Message] Maureen -> -EdTechTalk: sound is fine
2009-02-08 11:40:07 [Message] sheila -> -EdTechTalk: ok with me
2009-02-08 11:40:15 [Message] annelisewojo -> -EdTechTalk: sounds is perfect on this side
2009-02-08 11:41:09 [Message] sheila -> -EdTechTalk: Hi all! This chat room is for Conversations on EdTechTalk.
2009-02-08 11:41:27 [Message] lparisi -> -EdTechTalk: Hello Sarah
2009-02-08 11:41:52 [Message] Sarah S -> -EdTechTalk: Hi Lisa - better late than never!
2009-02-08 11:42:04 [Message] mariak -> -EdTechTalk: Sarah - want tojoin the skpye call - anyone else?
2009-02-08 11:42:22 [Message] Sarah S -> -EdTechTalk: I'm expecting some people to show up in a bit - I better not. 
2009-02-08 11:43:42 [Message] sheila -> -EdTechTalk: Hi Woodenmask!
2009-02-08 11:43:44 [Message] mariak -> -EdTechTalk: Hi John - glad to see you here! talking about constructing knowledge 
2009-02-08 11:44:17 [Message] sheila -> -EdTechTalk: Hi JackieB!
2009-02-08 11:44:35 [Message] woodenmask -> -EdTechTalk: Hi guys. Help me out. My two braincells aren't talking to each other. What do I have to press to hear the conversation?
2009-02-08 11:44:49 [Message] sheila -> -EdTechTalk: Click on the hearts
2009-02-08 11:44:58 [Message] sheila -> -EdTechTalk: Or the play button underneath.
2009-02-08 11:45:23 [Message] JackieB -> -EdTechTalk: Hey everyone. I just got here, who's on today?
2009-02-08 11:45:27 [Message] annelisewojo -> -EdTechTalk: Looks like the stream above is now working also.
2009-02-08 11:45:29 [Message] mariak -> -EdTechTalk: gary stager
2009-02-08 11:45:44 [Message] JackieB -> -EdTechTalk: Thanks.
2009-02-08 11:45:47 [Message] woodenmask -> -EdTechTalk: Ah HA! (Had my computer on Mute)
2009-02-08 11:45:57 [Message] Sarah S -> -EdTechTalk: We are such a product of our past learning experiences too - it takes a bit to get past the preconceived notion that someone else already knows what it is we are "supposed" to be doing / learning.
2009-02-08 11:45:59 [Message] lparisi -> -EdTechTalk: That will help Woodenmask
2009-02-08 11:47:00 [Message] sheila -> -EdTechTalk: Hi Judyb64
2009-02-08 11:47:40 [Message] judyb64 -> -EdTechTalk: hi sheila
2009-02-08 11:49:19 [Message] sanmccarron -> -EdTechTalk: Constructivist discovery exploration takes more than a 37 min class better.
2009-02-08 11:49:30 [Message] Maureen -> -EdTechTalk: Altho I believe in the constructive learning.. and do so with most of my classes- sometimes it is not the best way. I attended the session before NECC- got nothing out of it, figured I needed to give it more of a chance and went to Manchester. It was not what I wanted/needed and I left feeling frustrated. 
2009-02-08 11:49:58 [Message] lparisi -> -EdTechTalk: Maureen, do you want to jump into the skype call?
2009-02-08 11:49:58 [Message] sanmccarron -> -EdTechTalk: Answers to difficult questions need to be deconstructed and reflected back with more questions.
2009-02-08 11:50:09 [Message] Maureen -> -EdTechTalk: No mike Lisa
2009-02-08 11:50:43 [Message] sanmccarron -> -EdTechTalk: Disagree with idea that it needs to be a project that children can actually solve.
2009-02-08 11:51:12 [Message] sanmccarron -> -EdTechTalk: Success can be different things - exactly
2009-02-08 11:51:16 [Message] woodenmask -> -EdTechTalk: I like his point - we want these huge, global-view perspectives from kids who really don't have the tools to process that kind of worldview yet. Sort of like the way we get upset at the middleschool level because our kids are acting so adolescent...
2009-02-08 11:51:21 [Message] Sarah S -> -EdTechTalk: I think Gary's point about having solvable problems is really key for classroom implementation.   While hands on as a constructiist experience is important to understand, teachers also need to know more, discuss how, etc. to implement such things in the classroom to avoid some common mistankes and misunderstandings.
2009-02-08 11:51:35 [Message] Maureen -> -EdTechTalk: Sometimes learners need more direction than "just do it"
2009-02-08 11:51:45 [Message] Sarah S -> -EdTechTalk: (typing off today - forgive misspellings)
2009-02-08 11:52:05 [Message] sanmccarron -> -EdTechTalk: The teacher needs to be skilled in asking good questions and really KNOW the topic.
2009-02-08 11:52:26 [Message] lparisi -> -EdTechTalk: Always, San?  What if something comes up that you just don't know?
2009-02-08 11:52:40 [Message] lparisi -> -EdTechTalk: Does that mean you need to shut the kids down?
2009-02-08 11:52:47 [Message] JackieB -> -EdTechTalk: Then say you don't know & lets find out together.
2009-02-08 11:52:58 [Message] Maureen -> -EdTechTalk: I also think that some of the constructivist learning folks seem to deem that nothing is essential learning- there is no core learning needed... I pretty much disagree.
2009-02-08 11:53:16 [Message] sanmccarron -> -EdTechTalk: Yes - explore together, but need to be able to focus the direction.
2009-02-08 11:53:20 [Message] woodenmask -> -EdTechTalk: SanM - Agree, but it's at least as much about wrapping your head around what your guys can process and how to lead them to a place where they can process it.
2009-02-08 11:53:42 [Message] sanmccarron -> -EdTechTalk: Maureen - I didn't understand your comment
2009-02-08 11:54:06 [Message] Sarah S -> -EdTechTalk: It's all about the questions you ask - habitat, bird biology, environment - and then build a place for the birds to land as a result of asking and answering those questions for themselves.
2009-02-08 11:54:24 [Message] mariak -> -EdTechTalk: http://thecreativeeducator.com/v05/stories/What_Makes_a_Good_Project
2009-02-08 11:54:28 [Message] sanmccarron -> -EdTechTalk: whoa - a picture just came up
2009-02-08 11:55:00 [Message] mariak -> -EdTechTalk: http://stager.org/articles/goodproject.html
2009-02-08 11:56:03 [Message] sanmccarron -> -EdTechTalk: oops - I clicked on a link mariak posted and was bumped out
2009-02-08 11:56:05 [Message] JackieB -> -EdTechTalk: Gary - I agree we have too many standards to "master" at each grade. But how do we, in a system that requires us to do that, accomplish these goals without leaving the school we're at?
2009-02-08 11:56:11 [Message] woodenmask -> -EdTechTalk: I like Maureen's point - It's great when the students learn how to do stuff with projects and getting big worldviews, but they still need to know their times tables and be able to find Oklahoma on a map.
2009-02-08 11:57:02 [Message] sanmccarron -> -EdTechTalk: Need to be able to mix teaching styles to meet stds., but also combine and mix the standards.
2009-02-08 11:57:12 [Message] mariak -> -EdTechTalk: I think students need to know how to get the information not just the facts
2009-02-08 11:57:31 [Message] Sarah S -> -EdTechTalk: I'm with you Maria!
2009-02-08 11:57:40 [Message] sanmccarron -> -EdTechTalk: Students need to be able to find information in the future... that is what we need to teach
2009-02-08 11:57:45 [Message] mmiller7571 -> -EdTechTalk: elaborate more on ""projects" I am picturing dioramas and shoebox book reports
2009-02-08 11:58:01 [Message] woodenmask -> -EdTechTalk: Not JUST the facts, but there are some facts that they need to have on tap at some point.
2009-02-08 11:58:27 [Message] mariak -> -EdTechTalk: @woodenmask  - Maybe....
2009-02-08 11:58:29 [Message] Maureen -> -EdTechTalk: @maria I agree with teaching kids how to think and how to access the info they need, but if they don't have number sense and you are teaching algebra- they cannot do it. Where does the currciulum and the project based learning intersect? 
2009-02-08 11:58:43 [Message] Sarah S -> -EdTechTalk: Facts are only as useful as the ways they can be used - the connections they can make among them - what they can DO with the facts. 
2009-02-08 11:59:08 [Message] sanmccarron -> -EdTechTalk: At each level need the background to access the work being presented.
2009-02-08 11:59:41 [Message] sanmccarron -> -EdTechTalk: PBL combines talents and encourages collaboration between the students.
2009-02-08 11:59:50 [Message] Sarah S -> -EdTechTalk: Good PBl gets number sense at a very core level. It might not look like what one is used to, but they will actually better be able to investigate the math and ultimately understand it.
2009-02-08 11:59:56 [Message] Maureen -> -EdTechTalk: I just don't think that you can assume that all of the kids will learn thru pbl and get the facts/background that they need to be able to do higher level things.
2009-02-08 12:00:09 [Message] sanmccarron -> -EdTechTalk: sarah - agree
2009-02-08 12:00:23 [Message] lparisi -> -EdTechTalk: I agree, Maureen, but I do see struggling students finding amazing success with PBL
2009-02-08 12:00:36 [Message] Sarah S -> -EdTechTalk: No assumptions - you have to be attentive to observational assessment, that the projects are demonstrating deeper understandings. 
2009-02-08 12:00:43 [Message] woodenmask -> -EdTechTalk: I think we're more or less in agreement - coming at this from different directions. Properly designed and implemented projects are an essential PART of the whole package, but lectures, worksheets, etc... have an important place too.
2009-02-08 12:00:45 [Message] lparisi -> -EdTechTalk: With assistance, or small group instruction thrown in.
 
2009-02-08 12:01:04 [Message] sanmccarron -> -EdTechTalk: "observational Assessment" - nice
2009-02-08 12:01:55 [Message] sanmccarron -> -EdTechTalk: Reflection needs to be directed.
2009-02-08 12:01:58 [Message] Sarah S -> -EdTechTalk: The self relfective, self-assessment component is really important here too. Having time to meet with kids and talk to them, have them think about and articulate what they are learning.
2009-02-08 12:02:26 [Message] sanmccarron -> -EdTechTalk: They need to understand exactly what you are looking for, else you get regurgitation.
2009-02-08 12:02:48 [Message] Sarah S -> -EdTechTalk: It takes scaffolding to transition kids to PBL when they are coing from a different learning environment.
2009-02-08 12:02:49 [Message] Maureen -> -EdTechTalk: @sarah I think that you are right, but the typical 40 minutes I have with kids, makes this pretty much impossible.
2009-02-08 12:03:54 [Message] sanmccarron -> -EdTechTalk: Can not expect every lesson to "fit" into one period... need to be able to extend over a few periods.
2009-02-08 12:04:19 [Message] sheila -> -EdTechTalk: In the prompt, sharing the purpose is important but not necessarily the exact process.
2009-02-08 12:04:31 [Message] Maureen -> -EdTechTalk: When I taught K it was much easier to do projects and incorporate all the teaching/learning I needed to do. Now as a "special" this is much more difficult. I see some kids 40 minutes/wk, others 80 minutes. 
2009-02-08 12:04:51 [Message] sanmccarron -> -EdTechTalk: @9th grade, "honors" students expect to be TOLD everything and rebel when told to mess about or explore.
2009-02-08 12:05:10 [Message] Sarah S -> -EdTechTalk: Being creative with time - teaming with another teacher to share groups and make blocks of 80 minutes can be useful. Its not always easy - not all teachers are game for this, nor are all admins able to envision such creative scheduling.
2009-02-08 12:05:35 [Message] lparisi -> -EdTechTalk: @sanm I find that very true for higher level kids sometimes.  They want to follow the rules to get good grades.  Take away the typical rules and they are lost.
2009-02-08 12:06:09 [Message] sanmccarron -> -EdTechTalk: @ high school, it is "what's my grade" and no care about comments.
2009-02-08 12:06:10 [Message] Maureen -> -EdTechTalk: @lisa My 8th graders do nothing if not for a grade... I've told them that they are grade-grubbers. 
2009-02-08 12:06:11 [Message] sheila -> -EdTechTalk: I think the reflection piece is sooo important, but so often it gets cut off due to time limits.
2009-02-08 12:06:20 [Message] lparisi -> -EdTechTalk: Welcome Colleen
2009-02-08 12:06:37 [Message] sanmccarron -> -EdTechTalk: Difficult to transition them to worry about their LEARNING rather than the number.
2009-02-08 12:06:42 [Message] colleenk -> -EdTechTalk: Hi Lisa, Hi everyone!
2009-02-08 12:06:57 [Message] Maureen -> -EdTechTalk: Hi Colleen
2009-02-08 12:07:07 [Message] Sarah S -> -EdTechTalk: Got to run - guests are here. I'll listen to the rest on the podcast. Great to hear you, Gary!
2009-02-08 12:07:17 [Message] sanmccarron -> -EdTechTalk: "grade grabbers" - lol
2009-02-08 12:07:29 [Message] sanmccarron -> -EdTechTalk: whoa - that made a picture
2009-02-08 12:07:38 [Message] mariak -> -EdTechTalk: Hi colleen
2009-02-08 12:07:59 [Message] woodenmask -> -EdTechTalk: I'm getting more and more of those AHA! bigger picture moments with my guys each year, but it is still not an everyday/everystudent experience. 
2009-02-08 12:08:01 [Message] colleenk -> -EdTechTalk: Hi Maria!
2009-02-08 12:09:28 [Message] sanmccarron -> -EdTechTalk: Halfway through the year, my students are finally starting to accept that I will not give number grades without the reflection on the process 
2009-02-08 12:10:00 [Message] woodenmask -> -EdTechTalk: Oops - potty emergency with my Boy. Thanks for the conversation.
2009-02-08 12:10:07 [Message] sheila -> -EdTechTalk: @sanmccarron- Nice!
2009-02-08 12:10:07 [Message] lparisi -> -EdTechTalk: Bye
2009-02-08 12:10:30 [Message] sanmccarron -> -EdTechTalk: I am able to share with my students my thinking about the lesson plan because I am at high school and students can follow
2009-02-08 12:11:05 [Message] sanmccarron -> -EdTechTalk: I seek their input when I have a couple directions we could go
2009-02-08 12:11:30 [Message] sanmccarron -> -EdTechTalk: I'd like to get them to a point where they could self-direct the class on occassion
2009-02-08 12:12:00 [Message] sanmccarron -> -EdTechTalk: "Shameless self-promotion"
2009-02-08 12:12:16 [Message] Maureen -> -EdTechTalk: I give the kids in MS rubrics that explain what I am looking for- and altho I know Gary would probably not like rubrics- when I explain to the kids why and how I come to my decisions- it is helpful for me and for them. 
2009-02-08 12:12:18 [Message] sheila -> -EdTechTalk: It is necessary!
2009-02-08 12:12:42 [Message] sanmccarron -> -EdTechTalk: @maureen- yes!
2009-02-08 12:12:56 [Message] sheila -> -EdTechTalk: @Maureen - So they see your process in action.
2009-02-08 12:13:16 [Message] lparisi -> -EdTechTalk: I do the same, Maureen.  Helps the kids figure out my expectations.
2009-02-08 12:13:18 [Message] sheila -> -EdTechTalk: Necessary self-promtion
2009-02-08 12:13:19 [Message] sanmccarron -> -EdTechTalk: At the beginning of the year we make the protocols for various projects.
2009-02-08 12:13:45 [Message] sanmccarron -> -EdTechTalk: First day we come up with the idea of what "quality work" looks like.
2009-02-08 12:14:03 [Message] sanmccarron -> -EdTechTalk: Then they are more invested and we build on it for each activity.
2009-02-08 12:14:32 [Message] Maureen -> -EdTechTalk: Yes, we talked about why these things are important to me and why I choose what I do for the rubric. SOme of it is just to keep me honest- graphic design stuff. It's not my gut reaction that counts- there is a hierarchy of skills that contributes to the work.
2009-02-08 12:14:33 [Message] sanmccarron -> -EdTechTalk: The students become invested in the quality portion, while I direct the quantity of... whatever
2009-02-08 12:15:23 [Message] sanmccarron -> -EdTechTalk: I need to get my students doing electronic work, but we do not have but one computer room for school of 1000
2009-02-08 12:16:32 [Message] sanmccarron -> -EdTechTalk: We need to be able to share our lessons/work/projects without being self-conscious that we are doing something different
2009-02-08 12:17:19 [Message] sanmccarron -> -EdTechTalk: We have twins, too, and that is why it is important to collaborate with other teachers of same topic or level.
2009-02-08 12:17:58 [Message] lparisi -> -EdTechTalk: But when what you do is so vastly different from your colleagues, it makes it difficult.
2009-02-08 12:18:32 [Message] sanmccarron -> -EdTechTalk: True. Has caused conflict.
2009-02-08 12:18:32 [Message] Maureen -> -EdTechTalk: When I attended CMK last summer I was totally lost. There was no adult in the room to mentor, to help- only to disparage. It is so important for the teacher in the room to help kids (adults) learn. The learning I got was from Maria and Colleen. 
2009-02-08 12:19:59 [Message] sanmccarron -> -EdTechTalk: This is where admin should interject.  Not to say that what we do is better, just to have open collegial conversations and placement of child may be important for dif. learning styles, teaching styles.
2009-02-08 12:20:30 [Message] lparisi -> -EdTechTalk: I agree, San.  
2009-02-08 12:21:02 [Message] annelisewojo -> -EdTechTalk: I would love to see our administrators listening to these types of conversations
2009-02-08 12:22:00 [Message] lparisi -> -EdTechTalk: Hi Tansmom
2009-02-08 12:22:15 [Message] tansmom -> -EdTechTalk: hey lisa
2009-02-08 12:22:44 [Message] JackieB -> -EdTechTalk: @Maureen Why was learning from Maria and Colleen less valuable than from the "adult"?
2009-02-08 12:23:18 [Message] mariak -> -EdTechTalk: I think maureen felt left out of the process and we pulled her in
2009-02-08 12:23:31 [Message] Maureen -> -EdTechTalk: @Jackie- sorry- the ONLY learning I got was from Maria and Colleen.
2009-02-08 12:26:24 [Message] colleenk -> -EdTechTalk: @JackieB There's an interesting story behind that. 
2009-02-08 12:27:44 [Message] Maureen -> -EdTechTalk: @ Colleen- sure you won't join me at Duke for Alice? It will be fun!
2009-02-08 12:28:27 [Message] colleenk -> -EdTechTalk: @Maureen You don't know how tempting it is. Too bad it's not local.
2009-02-08 12:29:17 [Message] lparisi -> -EdTechTalk: http://constructingmodernknowledge.com/cmk08/
2009-02-08 12:29:20 [Message] Maureen -> -EdTechTalk: @Colleen I have kids who will be finishing their car projects this week- they will get to play with the roamer.
2009-02-08 12:29:31 [Message] lparisi -> -EdTechTalk: http://constructingmodernknowledge.com/cmk08/summer-institute-cmk-09/
2009-02-08 12:29:49 [Message] sanmccarron -> -EdTechTalk: Wow - how do you get grants like that? I have NO technology in my classroom (well, my one laptop and a projector), colored pencils, scissors...
2009-02-08 12:29:56 [Message] colleenk -> -EdTechTalk: @Maureen I should try to visit your school. Is that possible?
2009-02-08 12:30:11 [Message] mariak -> -EdTechTalk: thanks lisa! My meds are wearing off!
2009-02-08 12:30:23 [Message] JackieB -> -EdTechTalk: @Maureen & Colleenk I guess I need to hear the story, as I'm not seeing a problem.
2009-02-08 12:30:40 [Message] Maureen -> -EdTechTalk: @colleen- come anytime. We have 2 weeks off in March- but only get Mon/Tues for Feb and none for April.
2009-02-08 12:31:39 [Message] colleenk -> -EdTechTalk: @MariaK I also want to visit your classroom.
2009-02-08 12:31:44 [Message] sanmccarron -> -EdTechTalk: Good point
2009-02-08 12:32:22 [Message] mariak -> -EdTechTalk: @colleen - that would be so cool - after we get our roamers!!!
2009-02-08 12:33:55 [Message] JackieB -> -EdTechTalk: Time for me to run.
2009-02-08 12:34:13 [Message] colleenk -> -EdTechTalk: Bye @JackieB
2009-02-08 12:34:32 [Message] lparisi -> -EdTechTalk: bye Jackie
2009-02-08 12:34:38 [Message] mariak -> -EdTechTalk: Hurray for Debbie M
2009-02-08 12:34:49 [Message] colleenk -> -EdTechTalk: @Maureen Cynthia was the best!
2009-02-08 12:35:12 [Message] Maureen -> -EdTechTalk: @Colleen*) 
2009-02-08 12:35:36 [Message] Maureen -> -EdTechTalk: :{ 
2009-02-08 12:35:57 [Message] sanmccarron -> -EdTechTalk: Manchester NH - I can get there!
2009-02-08 12:36:09 [Message] sanmccarron -> -EdTechTalk: Great restaurants there.
2009-02-08 12:38:33 [Message] colleenk -> -EdTechTalk: The guest speakers were terrific.
2009-02-08 12:41:48 [Message] lparisi -> -EdTechTalk: http://ettconversations.blogspot.com/
2009-02-08 12:42:37 [Message] annelisewojo -> -EdTechTalk: thanks everyone!  I enjoyed listening while cooking today.
2009-02-08 12:43:26 [Message] sanmccarron -> -EdTechTalk: bye
2009-02-08 12:43:52 [Message] colleenk -> -EdTechTalk: Thanks! Bye!