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Conversations - Show 8 - 2008-09-13

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  • Length: 61:31 minutes (56.31 MB)
  • Format: MP3 Stereo 44kHz 128Kbps (CBR)

In this episode Lisa Parisi and Maria Knee are joined by Joel Zehring and Chrissy Hellyer.  We discuss teacher stereotypes: What are they?  How did they get started?  What can we do to change them?

Chat Here:

11:35:45 PeggyG: Victory!

11:35:47 nhill: You are streaming!

11:35:58 nzchrissy: Yes I'm hearing too

11:36:05 PeggyG: static gone now

11:36:27 PeggyG: can hear Joel too

11:36:30 nzchrissy: Yes we can hear Joel

11:36:41 Cathy E: Way to go Lisa

11:36:44 PeggyG: Everything is a GO!

11:36:47 Cathy E: sound is good

11:37:09 joelzehring: cool, skype just crashed

11:37:21 PeggyG: some days are like that!

11:37:39 PeggyG: hahaha

11:37:48 nhill: you are talking to us!!!

11:38:23 PeggyG: sometimes the spontaneous is the way to go :-)

11:39:20 PeggyG: teacher charactures?

11:39:42 PeggyG: we missed you last week Lisa.

11:39:48 Lisa Parisi: http://www.plurk.com/p/2da3z

11:40:34 PeggyG: caricatures-- I knew I couldn't spell that! thanks for the link Joel

11:41:07 nhill: teachers are highly respected elsewhere.

11:41:15 PeggyG: love the idea of teacher trading cards! we should start that.

11:41:25 nzchrissy: Teachers are very important in Bangkok too

11:41:53 nhill: who is ever home by 3?

11:42:06 nhill: how many bring work home too?

11:42:07 PeggyG: the teacher stereotypes are such a challenge!

11:42:09 nzchrissy: Many of the asian parents highly regard teachers

11:42:15 Amy C: I leave by 3:30, but I am at school by 6:30

11:42:43 PeggyG: so true Joel-some teachers do leave with the kids :-(

11:43:04 bcdtech/Maureen: I leave around 5 or so... then start working at home, and continue all weekend

11:43:18 PeggyG: good point Lisa

11:43:45 colleenk: Hi everyone

11:43:46 bcdtech/Maureen: How can you tell parents etc without sounding like whining

11:44:00 Cathy E: My oldest daughter has an elementary degree but works bartending cause she can make more $$

11:44:01 Amy C: How do we market ourselves?

11:44:02 PeggyG: web 2.0 is helping to make teachers more transparent and as parents get more connected they will see that teachers are working long past the school day!

11:44:06 bcdtech/Maureen: I think the professional piece is very important

11:44:43 nhill: I have many people tell me they could never do what I do.

11:44:47 courosa: the perception of professional has always been an issue, even in teacher education programs, there is a struggle between these being academic vs. professional programs. Teachers often talk about 'the profession', but the public do not use this terminology.

11:44:59 Amy C: I like to invite parents in who tend to have the impression that they can do it better

11:45:00 PeggyG: just watch a parent host a large birthday party for kids and you'll see it's not as easy as it looks

11:45:10 Amy C: I have parents come in and observe

11:46:21 Amy C: I have them actively observer - "to help me"

11:47:02 PeggyG: I've seen teachers post their certificates and credentials on their bulletin board. Think Harry Wong recommended that as way to show professionalism

11:47:53 Amy C: I have mine posted as do most of out staff

11:48:10 PeggyG: @Amy-do parents ever comment on them?

11:48:14 Amy C: our hs has degree and college listed on door with their name

11:48:26 Amy C: No, not normally

11:48:50 PeggyG: does posting the degree put parents off?

11:49:22 Amy C: NO, we just post ours like you see anywhere you go. Our nail salon tech has hers posted

11:49:48 Amy C: We do not draw attention to our certificates

11:50:24 PeggyG: wouldn't it be wonderful to live in a community where teachers received 100% support? That's awesome Chrissy!

11:50:33 Lisa Parisi: I agree Peggy

11:50:40 Amy C: I agree 100%

11:50:44 bcdtech/Maureen: Our degree stuff is posted on our website with our "profiles" and included in a little booklet for parents.

11:51:05 Amy C: @bcdtech I like that idea

11:51:27 PeggyG: that's a great idea!

11:52:21 PeggyG: Hi Maria!

11:52:23 bcdtech/Maureen: You still have parents who challenge your professionalism, credentials and seem to believe that the Ivy league degree is better than the state college degree....even if it is not in teaching

11:52:36 cheryl oakes: listeninng, not chatting today, great stuff, just wanted to let you know!!:-)

11:52:47 bcdtech/Maureen: Hi Cheryl

11:52:55 PeggyG: Yes, I think parents are often influenced by their own experiences in school.

11:53:21 cheryl oakes: Hi All, it is so great to see such good people here supporting these conversations. Okay, gotta go back to work, screening our Teacher and Leader of the Year candidates! Bye

11:53:40 PeggyG: bye Cheryl. Have fun!

11:53:45 cheryl oakes: thanks.

11:54:15 PeggyG: that's such an important point Lisa. Parents want to know that you like their child and that you know them!

11:54:41 bcdtech/Maureen: Do you think that we, as teachers, also question/reflect on what we are doing so much that it seems to others that we are always questioning what we do and how we do it- rather than exuding confidence?

11:55:05 Amy C: @bcdtech, I never thought of it from that perspective

11:55:07 Lisa Parisi: Good question Maureen

11:55:07 PeggyG: Really interesting question Maureen!

11:55:39 Amy C: so, how do we question so we get better, yet not make others think we aren't confident in our teaching

11:55:46 nhill: do you think that we get the bad rep from a few teachers?

11:55:55 PeggyG: that's one of the things that's different today that parents aren't familiar with-they're looking for the teacher to be in charge

11:56:16 bcdtech/Maureen: @nhill yes, not all lawyers are evil either- or so I've heard

11:56:34 nhill: in discussion with students about treating people with respect a student shared that a gym teacher in Elementary called her a fat b****

11:56:49 Amy C: @nhill noooooo

11:56:52 PeggyG: parents don't seem to realize how important their appreciation is to a teacher

11:57:14 Amy C: @PeggyG we have to be careful though

11:57:23 PeggyG: those little thank you notes mean so much--even just a passing comment!

11:57:40 Amy C: I have heard teachers complain because they did not get a good gift

11:57:45 nzchrissy: I agree PeggyG

11:57:56 Amy C: but I agree with PeggyG on the notes, and little thank yous

11:58:02 Amy C: to me those mean more

11:58:06 PeggyG: I experienced the same thing as a principal. I still have all of the thank you notes and cards I received over many years.

11:58:08 Amy C: and the support at home means a lot

11:58:35 nzchrissy: Yes, the thank you means so much - a gift can be bought by anyone - the time taken to say thank you is so much more thoughtful

11:59:28 PeggyG: I once did an article for the Principal's Files on Education World--asked the kids in my school what they thought the principal did all day. Very interesting! Then I talked with them in their classrooms.

11:59:31 bcdtech/Maureen: When I worked in K I never felt unappreciated, but now working as a "special" it is rare to hear thank you or get any feedback at all

12:00:02 Amy C: @Maureen I have witnessed that tremendously

12:00:20 PeggyG: It would be fun for teachers to do something similar with their kids to ask them what they think their teachers do all day/night to raise awareness :-)

12:00:29 colleenk: @LParisi Any openings in your district? :)

12:00:36 bcdtech/Maureen: Is the whole NCLB and accountablity thing creating more problems with stereotypes?

12:00:55 nzchrissy: Can you explain tenure?

12:01:04 Amy C: @PeggyG I might have my parent helper do that survey, write it up and post it on our class blog

12:01:08 PeggyG: special area teachers often are forgotten by parents--sadly! They often are the teachers that make the most difference in a kids life!

12:01:22 nzchrissy: I might do that survey too

12:01:25 bcdtech/Maureen: Working in a private school- no tenure- 1 year contracts for all

12:01:30 nhill: but you have experience

12:01:58 nzchrissy: yes, we have contracts in International Schools but in NZ it is different

12:02:24 PeggyG: I didn't do a survey. I just asked the kids across the school (K-6) to either draw pictures or write letters. Really fun to read!

12:03:03 Amy C: Maybe, I should have them write / draw with parent helper

12:03:05 nhill: we have a lot of wonderful teachers in our school...but we also have a few that IMHO do nothing.

12:03:14 bcdtech/Maureen: But there are the infamous "bad" doctors who continue to practice and doctors don't get the same bad rap as teachers

12:03:19 Cathy E: NC has tenure - ususlly after 3 years and above average evaluations

12:03:31 nhill: One is quoted as saying I haven't done anything for 15years...wait till you see the next 5 until I retire.

12:04:01 Amy C: In MO, tenure is your 5th year in the same school district

12:04:20 nhill: tenure is 3 years for me.

12:05:06 PeggyG: http://www.educationworld.com/a_admin/admin/admin090.shtml

12:05:20 PeggyG: That's a link to how my project was done.

12:05:28 Cathy E: For the first time in history my district is having a hard time getting teachers

12:06:17 PeggyG: @Cathy-that's interesting. It's true for AZ too--especially last 5 years or so.

12:06:46 bcdtech/Maureen: Do parents usually think "their" teachers are wonderful, but teachers in general are not?

12:06:51 PeggyG: every warm body is being hired because districts are desperate!

12:06:56 nhill: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxsOVK4syxU Taylor Mali

12:07:09 bcdtech/Maureen: @nhill- love that video!

12:07:23 nzchrissy: @PeggyG and that's where the community perception of professionalism starts to go down

12:07:44 Amy C: I see a trend that in elementary school, teachers are wonderful, As they move up though the years, then teachers become less wonderful

12:07:57 PeggyG: absolutely! I taught some student teachers at the university that I didn't feel I could recommend and they still got hired. :-(

12:08:10 Amy C: @PeggyG I hate that

12:08:16 PeggyG: me too!!!!

12:08:41 Amy C: that's what tenure means in MO

12:08:52 PeggyG: do you think teachers should have tenure?

12:09:31 Amy C: Yes, because otherwise it would be too easy to get rid of teachers and replace with brand new teachers who don't cost as much, but don't have the experience

12:09:36 PeggyG: Maria-that is so true! Many new teachers don't stay beyond 3 years.

12:09:55 bcdtech/Maureen: @Maria I agree, on town finance committee. But when non-teaching folks in our district, in general, do not get the same % raises as teachers, it is hard. In Mass, we have a cap on taxes- 2.5% which has killed our ability to raise the $ needed for schools. You need to get an override- very difficult.

12:10:41 PeggyG: @Maureen-I experienced the same thing when I was a principal in MA back in the 80's :-)

12:11:01 bcdtech/Maureen: @Peggy- where were you?

12:11:39 PeggyG: We had to get the town to vote approval of our budgets/overrides by standing before them in a town hall meeting to defend our budget. :-) They voted with slips of paper in a ballot box.

12:11:47 PeggyG: I was in Leverett, MA

12:12:28 Cathy E: There you go Maria

12:12:34 bcdtech/Maureen: @Peggy- least it wasn't Amherst :-) I live in a very small hilltown about 45 minutes west of Leverett

12:12:51 PeggyG: I lived in Amherst but was principal in Leverett.

12:14:04 Cathy E: I have a Master's degree - this is my 19th year of teaching $47,800 ( and I have 2 kids in college) I don't do it for the money

12:14:06 Lisa Parisi: Hi Paul

12:14:13 bcdtech/Maureen: @Peggy wait a minute while I take my foot out of mouth. Loved the valley back in the 70s, but so much has changed, I get lost down there now.

12:14:18 nzchrissy: I don't do it for the money either

12:14:20 nhill: when I said I was going to college to be a teacher I had a friend say..that sucks.

12:14:32 Lisa Parisi: Yes, Nicole. For me too

12:14:37 PeggyG: I noticed that the veteran teachers who had committed so much of their life to their teaching were ready to pass it on to the new teachers, and the new teachers just wanted to stay in their classrooms and not take on anything extra.

12:14:45 Amy C: I don't know of a single teacher who does it for the money

12:15:07 Lisa Parisi: I do, Amy. It's where I work.

12:15:11 Lisa Parisi: Good money.

12:15:22 Amy C: But, you still like teaching.

12:15:27 PeggyG: @Maureen-no problem! I was sped administrator for Erving district-5 small towns including Leverett

12:15:41 Lisa Parisi: Because that wasn't why I went into teching

12:15:51 Lisa Parisi: I wanted to teach..the money is a bonus

12:15:57 nhill: I did a lot of volunteering in classrooms before I started my degree.

12:16:01 Amy C: exactly

12:16:13 nhill: Worked many hours with Head start

12:16:36 Amy C: I get paid well for my area. I am in one of the top paying districts in the area

12:16:36 bcdtech/Maureen: What I hear from teachers is that they are feeling overloaded and not being compensated for what they are already doing. Not willing to take on more. I guess I do what I do because I love it, not for the money. I couldn't do my job without constantly working at it. Haven't tried coasting yet.

12:16:47 PeggyG: small community schools are very different than large inner-city schools

12:17:43 Amy C: @Maureen, I think this is where we need to learn time management. I do work hard, but try to not let it take away from my family time

12:17:46 PeggyG: in our small school (130 students) parents would bring food from their gardens to be "home-cooked" in the school cafeteria for lunch :-) Times have changed.

12:18:06 nhill: I am trying to balance more this year Amy.

12:18:34 Amy C: I have 4 kids, and a husband who works nights. I had to learn time management or I would have gone crazy

12:18:54 Amy C: I have changed a lot of what I do in the classroom

12:19:02 PeggyG: I can't ever imagine coasting--as a beginner or someone about to retire. It's all about attitude. Makes me sad to see teachers do that.

12:19:12 Amy C: Cut out as much paperwork as possible. More PBL when possible

12:19:38 bcdtech/Maureen: My kids are grown and mostly gone- son is back in the area, hopefully finishing college degree. So I can spend more time than I used to when they were little. But so much has changed, so fast- tech, etc... I have to go the extra mile to stay current. But in my school, that is not the norm.

12:20:32 paulbogush: THe money might stinck, but I have no forced overtime, no forced weekends, health insurance, summers "off," and I never, ever, worried about liosing my job. Just the fact that I know I "can" be working in the same school for the rest of my life takes a lot of pressure off.

12:20:44 PeggyG: time management is so important! you have to set priorities but I don't think it's enough to just stay in your classroom and close your door and do nothing else. Teachers need to network with other teachers to keep growing.

12:21:11 Amy C: @PeggyG you hit the nail on the head

12:21:30 Amy C: Networking and professional development are a must

12:21:43 Amy C: MO requires Masters and prof dev

12:21:51 bcdtech/Maureen: @peggy The networking piece has gotten so much easier now, why don't some teachers do more of it?

12:21:55 Amy C: We just have to be smart

12:22:01 paulbogush: CT=6yrs for masters

12:22:19 PeggyG: yes! I can't imagine life without my PLN and wish I had it when I was a principal. Life can be lonely at the top. :-)

12:22:23 jansmith: @ PeggyG this is why Web 2.0 is re-envigorating teaching

12:22:33 PeggyG: absolutely!!!!

12:22:48 nhill: I love the PLN...so many cannot imagine

12:23:02 nhill: I get comments like...when do you do this? I don't have the time.

12:23:05 Amy C: I second/ third/ fourth the PLN

12:23:22 nhill: I don't sit and watch TV much. I use that time to network and learn

12:23:26 Amy C: @nhill, I get comments like that as well

12:23:26 PeggyG: we need to keep tryiing to get teachers involved with social networking. slowly--they get overwhelmed easily.

12:23:49 bcdtech/Maureen: @nhill I get the same thing- "don't you have a life?"

12:24:15 PeggyG: it does take time, but you can choose how much time you will spend. I'm always amazed at how many things Vicki Davis fits into her day!

12:24:35 bcdtech/Maureen: @peggy- she is the energizer bunny

12:24:37 Amy C: @Maureen I don't normally get asked that. People know I run my kids to their activities all the time. But, it is all about time management

12:24:45 PeggyG: they have to do background checks!!

12:24:48 nhill: @PeggyG Yes..I don't think I will ever be able to keep up with Vicki!

12:24:55 paulbogush: I taught in an inner city school for 4 years before I realized the teacher next to me was not certified.

12:25:04 PeggyG: me either but she is my inspiration!

12:25:39 nhill: @PeggyG yes to me and many more as well!

12:25:52 Amy C: I love people like Vicki, they inspire me to just keep going

12:26:00 PeggyG: deadwood?

12:26:09 bcdtech/Maureen: @paul most teachers at my school are not certified- very common in private schools. I am not certifed- just certifiable.

12:26:54 Cathy E: I believe you don

12:26:57 Cathy E: don

12:27:04 PeggyG: you are all my heroes! Now that I'm retired I have more time to connect with my PLN but you do it on top of your busy lives!

12:27:11 Cathy E: don't have to be certified to be a good teacher

12:27:49 Cathy E: most great teachers are "natural" leaders of learning

12:27:53 bcdtech/Maureen: @Cathy- ;)

12:27:58 PeggyG: I wish I could go back with all of these web 2.0 tools available. I would be a much better administrator and teacher!

12:29:05 PeggyG: I have never learned so much in such a short time as I have since I got involved with social networking! Now my mission is to keep sharing it with everyone I talk to.

12:29:28 PeggyG: that is so true Lisa!

12:29:33 Amy C: @PeggyG I second that

12:29:33 bcdtech/Maureen: @peggy- that's one difference I see with my PLN- they are working at getting better with the new tools. I see many teachers who are not willing to learn- they are too comfortable doing what they have always done- which is usually good stuff- but could be sooo much better

12:30:02 nhill: I had never considered myself a leader...I always feel that I'm just a newbie..just learning..but I am finding many teachers coming to me...I'm only in my second year of teaching.

12:30:04 PeggyG: Whenever I tried to "get rid" of a bad teacher, other teachers came to their defense. Very disappointing.

12:30:32 PeggyG: Yes, nhill--you are a leader and they watch what you're doing and want to be like you :-)

12:31:00 jansmith: When it comes to "dead wood", it is the job of administrators to write the reports. The union does its job, administrators have to do theirs: observe evaluate & do the paperwork. We don't hire our colleagues.

12:31:16 Lisa Parisi: Maybe we should, Jan.

12:31:17 bcdtech/Maureen: Our new head may make a difference- he is a strong advocate for PD....altho he seems to think I can do all kinds of PD for teachers in my spare time.

12:31:36 PeggyG: I agree Maureen. One of my most inspirational teachers was one who had taught for 35 years and kept learning and changing and was always actively engaged with kids.

12:32:08 jansmith: @lisa: then we would have the responsibility to fire too--what would that do for colleagiality & trust?

12:32:24 Lisa Parisi: Maybe it's time to start thinking that way, Jan.

12:32:33 bcdtech/Maureen: I guess I'm alone at my school thinking that being actively engaged with kids nowadays means being current with tech.

12:32:44 PeggyG: I used to go to her house to help her create hyperstudio activities for her students (remember hyperstudio?).

12:32:45 Lisa Parisi: We need to set higher standards for what we want out of our colleagues.

12:33:17 nhill: our 8th grade teacher used Hyperstudio up until last year!

12:33:18 PeggyG: I don't think actively engaged needs to mean only technology. Relationships are so important.

12:33:41 nzchrissy: I started out with hyperstudio! Memories

12:33:53 PeggyG: :-)

12:34:20 bcdtech/Maureen: @peggy I agree, but when I am teaching middle school kids and just do a lecture- instead of infusing my lesson with multimedia- I am not meeting thekids where they are.

12:34:23 nhill: :D

12:34:26 PeggyG: yes Lisa-professional development needs to be more than hours of seat time for recertification credit

12:34:58 jansmith: I see it as my job to encourage & help my colleagues grow & connect to tools & people, to be a partner in their learning and growth. I did not hire them, I feel our code of ethics means we are clear about our relationships.

12:35:01 PeggyG: that's true-I think technology greatly enhances the engagement if used appropriately

12:35:27 jansmith: Yes to self evaluation, Lisa! Yeah reflective practice!

12:35:41 bcdtech/Maureen: Great topic!!

12:35:57 PeggyG: reflection and collaboration with other teachers is so important!

12:36:00 nhill: is it being done fairly?

12:36:20 jansmith: And that reflection& collab will grow our profession

12:36:27 PeggyG: that would be a fantastic followup conversation! self reflection

12:37:10 PeggyG: isn't Twitter so wonderful! That's how I find some of my best PD experiences!

12:37:19 nzchrissy: I LOVE twitter

12:37:30 nhill: don't forget Plurk!

12:37:33 jansmith: Yes, I have only been on Twitter 2 weeks!

12:37:34 PeggyG: click one more time :-)

12:37:56 jansmith: Bye! Have a great week.

12:37:58 PeggyG: I can't keep up with Plurk and get discouraged because my karma doesn't grow

12:38:09 Lisa Parisi: Thank you all for coming.

12:38:11 nhill: just forget the karma!

12:38:14 nhill: then it grows!

12:38:15 bcdtech/Maureen: Thank you Lisa,Maria, et all...another good conversation.

12:38:33 nhill: thank you all!

12:38:36 PeggyG: thank you Lisa-another great conversation! Thanks Joel for your contributions! Would love to meet you in person.

12:38:50 PeggyG: bye all-see you next week.



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