It's Elementary Show #10 - Copyright, It's the Law!
Our guest for this show is Aimee Bissonette whose legal practice focuses on copyright and trademark law, as well as rights licensing issues. Alice presents a case study to inform teachers about copyright and how it affects multimedia projects that you post on the web.
Chat Log
JoseR -> EdTechTalk We have a crowd -)
alicemercer -> EdTechTalk Hello
Durff -> EdTechTalk that's better
Durff -> EdTechTalk i refreshed
Durff -> EdTechTalk twittering again
alicemercer -> EdTechTalk Welcome
alicemercer -> EdTechTalk to It's Elementary
arthus -> EdTechTalk *vagrantly doesn't do homework*
Durff -> EdTechTalk hi all
arthus -> EdTechTalk anyone a math teacher?
arthus -> EdTechTalk hi Druff
JoseR -> EdTechTalk Hi everyone
arthus -> EdTechTalk Durff*
Durff -> EdTechTalk yes but don't tell anyone
JoseR -> EdTechTalk our focus is on Elementary School, so we teach everything
Durff -> EdTechTalk i don't like it
JoseR -> EdTechTalk Hi courosa
Durff -> EdTechTalk except drivers ed
arthus -> EdTechTalk @JoseR Oh ya.... I'd better go fine someone who is high school
courosa -> EdTechTalk Hi all
arthus -> EdTechTalk for a friend of mine
Durff -> EdTechTalk kuropatwa
Durff -> EdTechTalk he's on twitter
courosa -> EdTechTalk Hi Arthus, was very impressed by your .mp3 a while back, played it for my class.
Durff -> EdTechTalk arthus should be a guest teacher in one of my classes
arthus -> EdTechTalk @coucasa thanks
Maria -> EdTechTalk hi arthus - I teach math in kindergarten!p
arthus -> EdTechTalk @Durff haha... sure that would be awesome
arthus -> EdTechTalk @Maria P looking for high school here... tweeting
Durff -> EdTechTalk i'll get past preso and turkey day and schedule you
Durff -> EdTechTalk hi heff
Durff -> EdTechTalk jeff
JL -> EdTechTalk Hello Lisa & all
Durff -> EdTechTalk it's a day - can't even type
JoseR -> EdTechTalk Hi Jeff
arthus -> EdTechTalk cool )
arthus -> EdTechTalk hi Jeff
courosa -> EdTechTalk Sounds like an another examples of ... http//educationaltechnology.ca/couros/
JoseR -> EdTechTalk Hello Lisa
lisaparisi -> EdTechTalk Hi Jose
Durff -> EdTechTalk hi parisi!
courosa -> EdTechTalk The issue is copyright itself, it's time to promote copyleft in schools (Creative Commons) ... this is not being done as much as it should be.
JoseR -> EdTechTalk We are discussing copyright and fair use for teachers
JoseR -> EdTechTalk Creative commons is usually the next step
arthus -> EdTechTalk I love CC
arthus -> EdTechTalk I go directly to CC for everything
JoseR -> EdTechTalk We are concerned with use of material that comes from the curriculum we teach
Durff -> EdTechTalk but how many do?
courosa -> EdTechTalk I wish more of my students did, Arthus. We need to push for it.
Durff -> EdTechTalk teach it
arthus -> EdTechTalk Show it to them.... they'll love the idea
Durff -> EdTechTalk require it
arthus -> EdTechTalk oh, i like that
arthus -> EdTechTalk require creative commons
JoseR -> EdTechTalk Especially in Elementary School. We might want to produce content based on units of study or text we are teaching
Durff -> EdTechTalk we will do it on our movies
arthus -> EdTechTalk also, have your students put a license on their work
Durff -> EdTechTalk in dec
arthus -> EdTechTalk have them chose one
Durff -> EdTechTalk today we focused on our readers
JoseR -> EdTechTalk Hi Susan, what grade do you teach?
courosa -> EdTechTalk I am not sure if we can require it, legally, and ethically. I think in a perfect world we would promote sharing, but not everyone wants to. And, it's also important to note that copyleft doesn't actually work without copyright.
Durff -> EdTechTalk added blogs of the 'big guys' and read and blogged what resonated
arthus -> EdTechTalk @courosa the day that a teacher can't legally require stuff for an assignment is a sour day
Durff -> EdTechTalk i will require it
courosa -> EdTechTalk I wish everyone did, but there will always be people that need copyright for their livelihood.
Durff -> EdTechTalk I can and will
Durff -> EdTechTalk hi sarah
arthus -> EdTechTalk if teachers can require you watch a tv show for homework, they can require you use creative commons work
courosa -> EdTechTalk @durff You require CC licences of your students?
Durff -> EdTechTalk i do
Sarah S -> EdTechTalk Hi
arthus -> EdTechTalk Hi Sarah
JoseR -> EdTechTalk @courosa, an educator you want to showcase what is happening in your classroom.
Durff -> EdTechTalk if it's created in my class it's c
courosa -> EdTechTalk I like the idea, but I don't believe that is legal.
Durff -> EdTechTalk cc
arthus -> EdTechTalk @courosa what's not legal about it?
Durff -> EdTechTalk it's school courosa
arthus -> EdTechTalk it's a requirement of assignment... this is school
Durff -> EdTechTalk perfectly legal
arthus -> EdTechTalk every file on school network belongs to school...
Durff -> EdTechTalk exactly
JoseR -> EdTechTalk You are not looking at taking away $$$$ from original copyright
Durff -> EdTechTalk if anyone makes $, buy me dinner
courosa -> EdTechTalk It's students' intellectual property ... in fact, this was challenged when Turnitin.com was brought into schools. Students fought against it, and they found that schools could not legally ask for papers to be submitted to turnitin.com because it is student's intellectual property.
Durff -> EdTechTalk they might be familiar with the original work
arthus -> EdTechTalk @courosa but you can require they use creative commons licensed work
courosa -> EdTechTalk No, that's not true. Students own the work.
courosa -> EdTechTalk Yes, arthus, that is correct.
arthus -> EdTechTalk Not if it's on school network...
Durff -> EdTechTalk courosa - i'm not in a pubic school
alicemercer -> EdTechTalk on CC I would have to have PARENTS agree since my kids are under
arthus -> EdTechTalk most schools have a clause in computer use policy that if it's in school networj it is school property
JoseR -> EdTechTalk Is turnit in a database service or website for a school?
Durff -> EdTechTalk i can require it if created in my room
courosa -> EdTechTalk You can require students to use CC work, but it is illegal to require them to license their work under the CC as students own copyright.
arthus -> EdTechTalk I agree, that would be illegal
courosa -> EdTechTalk well you can ask them, but can't force them.
arthus -> EdTechTalk let alone unethical
Durff -> EdTechTalk yes i can
arthus -> EdTechTalk @Durff maybe in private school... not public
arthus -> EdTechTalk @courosa I think that was the idea, force CC sources but allow them to chose license
Durff -> EdTechTalk i am not forcing them to use it for work created on their own time or for another course
courosa -> EdTechTalk Arthus is correct ... public schools you are not able to force CC licenses of students, it is their right to copyright, their intellectual property.
JoseR -> EdTechTalk Well as intellectual property you can always reserve all rights
Durff -> EdTechTalk i knew i left public schools for a good reason
Durff -> EdTechTalk this silliness is it
arthus -> EdTechTalk @courosa hmm... but I wonder if u make it on a school network
courosa -> EdTechTalk Yes Jose, but the default is all rights reserved. So unfortunately, this is why we have CC licenses ... the default is NOT to share ... you have to choose to share.
arthus -> EdTechTalk @Durff yes, beaucracy limits the creativty so much
Durff -> EdTechTalk it's a shame
arthus -> EdTechTalk @courosa but if you make if on a school network, it is property of school often
courosa -> EdTechTalk Agreed.
JoseR -> EdTechTalk @Courosa do understand default rights
Durff -> EdTechTalk creation of content is the top of Bloom's taxonomy
arthus -> EdTechTalk @Durff I'm constantly conflicted betwen equality and anger at the system
courosa -> EdTechTalk @arthus, I think you may have a point, but it would have to be stated explicitly somewhere in the Network Use Policy.
Durff -> EdTechTalk hi clithers
arthus -> EdTechTalk @courosa of course... which it is in my school
Durff -> EdTechTalk sound below the chat room
arthus -> EdTechTalk hence, I don't store files on school network
clithers -> EdTechTalk Hi Durff et al
courosa -> EdTechTalk @aruthus, what does it state on your policy?
courosa -> EdTechTalk @durff so you are in a private school?
Durff -> EdTechTalk thank God I am
arthus -> EdTechTalk @coucosa looking it up now...
Durff -> EdTechTalk hi kbosch
Durff -> EdTechTalk sound is right below the chat room
JoseR -> EdTechTalk Hi folks, We are discussing fair use criteria
JoseR -> EdTechTalk Any questions for our guests?
JoseR -> EdTechTalk guest
Durff -> EdTechTalk hi jeff
Durff -> EdTechTalk we dropped our guest
courosa -> EdTechTalk hmmmm ... i am not sure if copyright licensing makes it more marketable
Durff -> EdTechTalk any questions for our guest?
Durff -> EdTechTalk hi Jarnie
Durff -> EdTechTalk hi phil
Phil g -> EdTechTalk hey folks
Durff -> EdTechTalk sound below the chat room
Phil g -> EdTechTalk already have it thanks!
Durff -> EdTechTalk great
Phil g -> EdTechTalk great topic tonight
JoseR -> EdTechTalk Hello there
clithers -> EdTechTalk I wonder how safe it is to assume that education has a "special case" over, say, re-use for medical or any other purpose.
Durff -> EdTechTalk any questions for our guest?
arthus -> EdTechTalk "All files existing within the school network are the property of [my school]."
Phil g -> EdTechTalk Love to have her speak to how Creative Commons has affected fair use.
clithers -> EdTechTalk It's my idea, I stole it first!
Sarah S -> EdTechTalk Hey there Cheryl!
Maria -> EdTechTalk hello skiing fool!
cheryloakes skiing fool -> EdTechTalk Hello, I am glad to get here finally.
JoseR -> EdTechTalk @clithers it seems that educators do NOT have special privilidges, roms are probably the same
cheryloakes skiing fool -> EdTechTalk Hi Maria, Sarah, and all in the chat
alicemercer -> EdTechTalk Yeah, well, I would like text companies to go to a Creative Commons noncomercial
JoseR -> EdTechTalk rules are still the same
alicemercer -> EdTechTalk Or CreativeCommons for anyone BUYING the text?
courosa -> EdTechTalk @arthus ... wow, that is very oppressive. Then by default every teacher lesson plan, unit, multimedia, every student project ... all owned by the school. That's just wrong. Makes the case for USB disks or portable hard drives.
Phil g -> EdTechTalk Alice- interesting to think about
arthus -> EdTechTalk @courosa I know.... it's incredibly oppresive. Yet, somehow I doubt it would hold up in court
arthus -> EdTechTalk Like, if I wrote a novel in school and wanted to sell it I doubt they could claim copyright
JoseR -> EdTechTalk Here is a list of copyright friendly list http//copyrightfriendly.wikispaces.com/
Phil g -> EdTechTalk Nice Jose- thanks!
courosa -> EdTechTalk @arthus ... it wouldn't, someone wrote it without any sense of the law. And the way it is written, NOTHING created that resided on the networked could be put into the CC without permission of the school officials.
arthus -> EdTechTalk Still, I do everything on my own USB or laptop
CathyN -> EdTechTalk Hello room
arthus -> EdTechTalk @courosa That's what I thought... but it still intimidates teachers/students without knowledge of law
courosa -> EdTechTalk @arthus But in reality, Facebook does the same thing, but they are private. No way that would hold up in a courtroom for a public institution.
courosa -> EdTechTalk @arthus Agreed!
JoseR -> EdTechTalk http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhimdwoWMA&eurl=http//witchyrichy.wikispaces.com... on creative commons
arthus -> EdTechTalk @courosa yup, in a way. In addiiton, Facebook actually has good lawyers P
courosa -> EdTechTalk http//educationaltechnology.ca/couros/
Maria -> EdTechTalk http//www.ted.com/talks/view/id/
courosa -> EdTechTalk i blogged it a while back.
arthus -> EdTechTalk besides, students don't have a choice...
JoseR -> EdTechTalk Ted Talk link by lessig;http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhimdwoWMA&eurl=http//witchyrichy.wikispaces.com...
arthus -> EdTechTalk which would effectively mean school forces students to revoke copyright
JoseR -> EdTechTalk oops not linkable
Durff -> EdTechTalk if we miss a question - please repeat it
clithers -> EdTechTalk It may be that law is different in UK but it's not about where the work is stored, more who created it and on whose $/£
JoseR -> EdTechTalk http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhimdwoWMA&eurl=http//witchyrichy.wikispaces.com...
JoseR -> EdTechTalk got
JoseR -> EdTechTalk got it
Durff -> EdTechTalk we don't intentionally miss any
arthus -> EdTechTalk @Durff hi )
Durff -> EdTechTalk clithers - where in UK are you?
JoseR -> EdTechTalk Here is a fun youtube on Fair Use; http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKAZSYtPU&eurl=http//witchyrichy.wikispaces.com/...
Durff -> EdTechTalk you're famous arthus
arthus -> EdTechTalk haha... )
arthus -> EdTechTalk actually, creative commons is more profitable for small players
clithers -> EdTechTalk @durff Tonight in hotel in Exeter, normally Suffolk over in the east
arthus -> EdTechTalk for instance, nobody would PAY for my scripts
Durff -> EdTechTalk wow!
arthus -> EdTechTalk but I do make more from donations/support fees
alicemercer -> EdTechTalk Anyone want to join call?
arthus -> EdTechTalk I offer all my code for free
alicemercer -> EdTechTalk mizmercer on Skype
JoseR -> EdTechTalk our show is still on for post show
arthus -> EdTechTalk And have people pay me for support... works great
Phil g -> EdTechTalk This has been good. Thanks for a great guest!
arthus -> EdTechTalk Durff needs to talk more )
cheryloakes skiing fool -> EdTechTalk Excellent outro Maria!!
Durff -> EdTechTalk no arthus she does not
courosa -> EdTechTalk @arthus ... very cool. Glad to know you are sharing your code. One of the reasons this is the way it is relates to the abundance vs. scarcity economy ... and the attention economy. Basically, if you give something away, it brings more attention to it. See Linux.
langwitches -> EdTechTalk Thank you
arthus -> EdTechTalk Very nice Maria... want to be on radio
Durff -> EdTechTalk she should
cheryloakes skiing fool -> EdTechTalk Arthus, would you just love to be in her kindergarten????
arthus -> EdTechTalk @courosa yes... works very well. Actually some of my plugins are good
Durff -> EdTechTalk we all would
JoseR -> EdTechTalk Great presentation at the kOnline Conference http//witchyrichy.wikispaces.com/copyright
arthus -> EdTechTalk pretty good*
clithers -> EdTechTalk We tend to look at our shoes when it comes to copyright but we ignore at our peril.
alicemercer -> EdTechTalk http//www.copyright.com/ccc/home.do
arthus -> EdTechTalk @Durff hmm... yuppers
courosa -> EdTechTalk what plugins?
arthus -> EdTechTalk for WordPress
arthus -> EdTechTalk http//myfla.ws/projects/
alicemercer -> EdTechTalk Copyright clearning house...
Durff -> EdTechTalk if anyone wants to call in you should call mizmercer
Durff -> EdTechTalk hi pam
Pam Shoemaker -> EdTechTalk hi
Durff -> EdTechTalk if you enter skype call remember to turn off the stream first
clithers -> EdTechTalk Dead right. I have a music podcast and the motto is "Podcasting is selling music, and it's legal!
Durff -> EdTechTalk )
Phil g -> EdTechTalk thanks folks! Keep up the great work!
Durff -> EdTechTalk hi again pam
Pam Shoemaker -> EdTechTalk )
Durff -> EdTechTalk hi phil
Durff -> EdTechTalk hi matthew
mathew -> EdTechTalk hello
Durff -> EdTechTalk hi derralg
mathew -> EdTechTalk can't hear anything
Maria -> EdTechTalk @arthus - I'm your NH neighbor!
derrallg -> EdTechTalk hi durff
Durff -> EdTechTalk mathew sound below chat room
Pam Shoemaker -> EdTechTalk These voices sound very familiar!
Durff -> EdTechTalk we are pam
arthus -> EdTechTalk @Maria live free or die, eh?
Durff -> EdTechTalk the flag
Durff -> EdTechTalk )
Durff -> EdTechTalk hi ann
Ann-NJTechTeacher -> EdTechTalk Hi - I love the topic
Maria -> EdTechTalk righto
alicemercer -> EdTechTalk http//oakridgesixthgrade.edublogs.org
JoseR -> EdTechTalk Cool
alicemercer -> EdTechTalk I have a copyright statement in sidebar.
Maria -> EdTechTalk I have a few kindergarten kiddos who put the copyright sign on their work!
courosa -> EdTechTalk thus you cannot force them to choose a license ... it is THEIR work.
courosa -> EdTechTalk THEIR choice
JoseR -> EdTechTalk pretty clear now
Durff -> EdTechTalk welcome back matthew
courosa -> EdTechTalk it counts as payment sometimes or entry
courosa -> EdTechTalk work for hire
JoseR -> EdTechTalk yep
courosa -> EdTechTalk illegal in public schools
clithers -> EdTechTalk Seems that "common sense" (perhaps Creative Commons sense) should prevail but then lawyers get involved.(
courosa -> EdTechTalk then google owns everything if that is true
courosa -> EdTechTalk Your work resides on every Google server!
courosa -> EdTechTalk it just doesn't make sense.
Pam Shoemaker -> EdTechTalk Great conversation!
courosa -> EdTechTalk It is not fair to force anyone into letting go of their rights, period!
JoseR -> EdTechTalk ditto courosa
Ann-NJTechTeacher -> EdTechTalk Did you ever notice on wikispaces that it states the work is Creative Commons statement on edit page?
JoseR -> EdTechTalk yes, so.....?
courosa -> EdTechTalk I love the Creative Commons, I use it with everything I do, however, there are still people that make their living through copyright. We are lucky that we are paid to teach. We don't have to make our living creating content. We have to respect all sides of this.
Ann-NJTechTeacher -> EdTechTalk written poorly sorry
alicemercer -> EdTechTalk http//www.copyright.com/ccc/home.do
Durff -> EdTechTalk hi techsavvy'
CathyN -> EdTechTalk perhaps the term for schools taking them could be "hijacking"
Durff -> EdTechTalk hi jeff
JoseR -> EdTechTalk Hey Jeff is lurking in and out today -)
Jeff -> EdTechTalk refreshing pages a lot
JoseR -> EdTechTalk hahah
Jeff -> EdTechTalk getting ready for Ustream practice session
JoseR -> EdTechTalk great
Durff -> EdTechTalk he's checking up on us
Durff -> EdTechTalk big brother is watching
derrallg -> EdTechTalk but a kind big brother
Durff -> EdTechTalk true
courosa -> EdTechTalk @arthus Thanks for asking the question.
clithers -> EdTechTalk Thanks everyone, a great conversation. MUST sleep now!
arthus -> EdTechTalk @courosa no problem... wanted to hear
alicemercer -> EdTechTalk Where are all of you from ?
alicemercer -> EdTechTalk Just quickly?
Ann-NJTechTeacher -> EdTechTalk New Jersey
courosa -> EdTechTalk I think it affirmed what we were saying.
cheryloakes skiing fool -> EdTechTalk great show, glad I was here.
Sarah S -> EdTechTalk Maine
cheryloakes skiing fool -> EdTechTalk maien
cheryloakes skiing fool -> EdTechTalk maine
alicemercer -> EdTechTalk Awesome, part of the Maine contingent
clithers -> EdTechTalk UK
JoseR -> EdTechTalk Los Angeles, CA
Durff -> EdTechTalk akying fool!
Ann-NJTechTeacher -> EdTechTalk I'll have to catch up on the beginning from the podcast thanks for a great topic
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